Innovate Owners - BE CAREFUL!
 

Sorry to make a whole post but thought it would be worthwhile for anyone owning one to check the fitting that feeds air/vacuum to the brake booster. The grey plastic one. I was on the track at VIR and had my pedal drop to the floor (pretty scary but fortunately was at a sort of slower part of the track).

Mine some how came slightly loose and the brakes could only engage at about 10% until you pumped the brake hard a few times and then again the pressure would leak out.

If I were on the straight there (hitting about 130mph) I would have been into the wall and totaled my car.

I did a temp fix where I just slapped some lock-tite all around it and turned it as far as it would go. I plan to take it off and inspect it since I'm back from the track.

scary shit man.

Hey Mr Swift,

I'm glad you are okay. Hopefully you can fix what ails your baby. Do you have to buy a new seat from the pants wetting you may have done?

Regards,
The man who takes photos.

Thank you for the heads up!

Is this the 90 deg hose fitting? I am confused at how a small leak from there could cause the brake booster to fail. The vacuum level in the manifold is not going to fall sufficiently low due to a tiny leak right? I don't know to much about how the brake booster works though...

Yes the 90 degree one. I'm not 100% sure how it works. I had someone sit in and apply the brakes when I moved the fitting freely to the left he said the pedal lost all pressure and it firmed up when I went to the right with it.

Crazy! Good thing the drift gods invented the E-brake.

WTF how is this kit messing with the brakes?
:needpics:

Read above, there's a fitting that pumps air to the brake booster which pressurizes your brake master cylinder.

There isn't really a pic worth taking just that my fitting was able to move left and right freely.

Uhhh, the brake booster runs off vacuum, not positive pressure. Without vacuum the pedal would go really hard, not really soft. Proof of this is what the pedal does with the engine not running (0 vacuum), it goes really hard really quick.

For safety, I would re-bleed all four brakes before driving it again. It sounds more like air in the system than something caused by a loose vacuum fitting.

well I don't know what the brake booster is.
This is why I'm never the first to buy anything. way too many bugs going on
ALWAYS.

I'm going to fully bleed them again. I did twice at the track until I got no bubbles. Not very familiar with how the vacuum pressure works but when I loosened the fitting by rotating it left the pedal lost pressure (car running).

Curiouser and curiouser. I can't imagine a scenario where loss of vacuum would cause the pedal to go to the floor.

As posted above, it would normally go hard. Going past its normal travel would normally indicate something in the hydraulic system, such as excessive heat or air.

Please keep us all posted.

so, i'm starting to think maybee you boiled the fluid AND have a vacuum leak on the booster. When the booster is NOT under vacuum, you have a firm pedal due to no vacuum assist, when you do have vacuum on the booster you have sponge pedal due to the bubbles in the fluid.....

Bleed them again for sure.

What kind of brake fluid were you running?

Running Motul RBF600

It would be nice if you made your signature narrower in width, as it is larger that the regular forum pages and every page you post, I have to be moving the cursor to be able to see the whole post :thanks: Eliminating the last pic would do the trick :D

I have a hard time imagining that you're boiling that, especially at VIR.

get a bigger monitor or change res or dont use phone lol ::thanks:

1600x900 i can see everything

This would be my guess as well, there's simply no way a vacuum leak would cause the pedal to go soft.

in order for the motul to boil he would have to reach a DRY boiling point of almost 600 degrees. if he had air in the lines which would cause moisture after heating up that would drop the WET boiling point down into the low 400s or so.

I dont know how he could have hit almost 600 degrees dry boiling point to create air/bubbles in the lines to cause a soft peddle. must have been doing some serious braking

that's the thing that seems weird to me too. VIR is relatively easy on brakes IMO. I know he's got a BBK installed, i wonder if that has anything to do with it.

Thanks for the feedback, I'll be looking into all this. Perhaps the rotors became exhausted?

:D I don't do the monitor buying at work :bellyroll:

you need to talk to IT department then

Sounds like a Master Cylinder or air in brake lines problem, like others said, you would get hard pedal when vacuum leaks out of the booster not a soft one.

@swift996 you could try the castrol srf think it has a higher wet boiling point, but that doesnt really fix the problem unless you really are just getting hot.

Yeah, i wan't sure what fluid he is running, but i agree it is tough to boil RBF... assuming he fully flushed out the OEM fluid when he put in the RBF... if not... then ..... well....

The other thing I'm looking at is the rotors, I didn't scuff them prior to putting the new compound pad on. The pads ate up my rotors pretty good. I wonder if they reached their capacity. Any suggestions on a power bleeder? I just gravity bleed the brakes.

i have the basic motive one. hand pump

So instead of a guy fixing his super wide signature pics, you would have the IT department get you a new monitor. Sounds like a great use of Chair Force money. :D

I think we are getting away from the point of this thread. The point is that the fitting on the Innovate Supercharger for the brake boost hose sucks, and it is advised that everyone running one check theirs or hopefully improve it. You shouldn't be getting any vacuum leak from that hose ever. There is a reason that while most of the other vacuum hoses on the car don't have hose clamps, the brake booster hose does have hose clamps on it.

same here, works great and makes it easy to push enough fluid to flush out the old stuff.

Link? :D

i got mine at sears

http://motiveproducts.3dcartstores.com/

I had found them, but was looking for your specific ones. I see some say european, GM, Ford etc.. Any will do?

I've used the Motive's before. Don't like them. Nothing beats the ol skool two person method. Get your child labor or significant other to press the brake pedal.

I did it last time with the wife. Actually bought speed bleeders, and when time to bleed came they sent shorter ones that never closed :mad0260::mad0260:

Had to go ahead and replace them all to bleed the ol skool way. They were nice enough and sent me the correct set for free. Will install them next time I change the fluid.

Welcome to goverment spending...end of fiscal year!!! everyone is all like OMG WE HAVE MONEY!! WHAT DO WE SPEND IT ON?!?!? 24 inch monitors for everyone!! (I am IT and i have 2 24's :P) shit i just got oakly's for eye pro.

got to spend it or you will get less next year lol

The part that is different with the various models is the cap that goes on the master cylinder. I've been using a motive bleeder for the last 10 years, it works great.