rev matching
 

ok i grew up on small 4 cylinder engines - all with manual transmissions. however, i was never taught to rev match. i was always taught to change gears early (below 3k rpm) to save on gas.

all i do to change gears is - let off gas, push in clutch, change gear, as i'm letting out clutch, i push on the gas, sometime hold the clutch in the sweet spot for half a sec, and then let all the way out.

i'm usually very smooth with changing gears at low rpms. however with sometimes lately i'm not as smooth, especially at higher rpms. i'm not over 1,000 miles yet in my brz, so i haven't pushed it yet. what should i be doing?

thanks in advance

Search for heel and toe technique

First off, rev-matching is only used on downshifts not upshifts.

Second, "sometimes hold the clutch in the sweet spot for a half a second", you shouldn't need to do this, that's just slipping that clutch. Just smooth motions off the clutch and on the gas.

Third, the whole point of rev-matching is when you downshift you want to match the RPMs the engine is going to be at, therefore saving some clutch life and just a smoother ride... and bonus cool points!

Lets say you are going to downshift 4th to 3rd:
You're at 4th gear at 2500rpms, a turn is approaching...
Clutch in, shift knob to 3rd gear, "blip throttle" to what the RPM's WILL be at when you engage third, probably around 3300-3500rpms, let clutch out. It should be quick and smooth and you should feel nothing in the motion of the car, no engine braking. The longer you take to blip the throttle the less smooth you will be. It's not hard to get the hang of it.

Now heel-toeing is when it gets fun! It is the same thing as a rev-match but lets just say that you are in the same situation but that corner is approaching quickly and you want to be a badass, you heel-toe that bitch!
Brake with the LEFT side of your RIGHT foot, clutch in (keep braking), rev-match the gas with the RIGHT side of your RIGHT foot (keep braking), clutch out, right pedal down!

All of this just takes practice, learn to rev-match first, then heel-toe that sumbitch!

I hope this all made sense...

EDIT: Some people are more comfortable with the 50/50 style (left side of right foot on brake, right side on gas), some people like the traditional heel on brake, toe on gas. It's up to you to see what you like.

For those people with upside down feet...:D

And broken/double jointed ankles! Never understood how people do it.

I just use the left side of my foot for the brake and the right side to blip the throttle. My ankles don't cooperate when I try the normal heel/toe method...

Rev match = clutch + throttle to make RPM go up + downshift one gear and release

You can practice this on the highway when you are in 6th gear going 60mph. Keeping your eyes on the RPM needle(and the road), try going from 6th gear to 5th gear and clutch in + press the throttle and then release clutch.

If the needle drops that means you need to give it less gas, but if the needle went up, that means you need to give it more gas. If you fail, go back to 60mph and try again, it should be smooth as butter when you let go of the clutch. I did this for two days and now I'm pro at every gear and RPM and any speed, takes time to learn, so goodluck my friend. :thumbup:

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxGtx9xXhlM"]Heel and Toe Braking - Shifting Technique Tutorial: Hooked On Driving - YouTube[/ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxGtx9xXhlM

thanks everyone for the replies. i plan on practicing this weekend.

What about double clutching?

Synchro box, no need. I didn't have to double-clutch the gearbox in my 1971 240Z, you surely shouldn't have to in a 2013 BRZ...

Dont worry about it, you will never need to do it in this car

You don't need do this for the car. That said, it is kind of like heel-toe, but the steps are more separated. The purpose of this is to make the speed of the different parts match so you could shift into gear, if they don't match, it'll *cruunnnchhhh*. This "matching" is now done by the synchro, so it is basically an "out of date" technique... unless you drive trucks or have a broken synchro(s).

What you actually do is pretty similar. You clutch in, shift to neutral and let out the clutch, then rev-match (blip throttle, heel-toe, w/e). After that you clutch in and shift into gear. "Heel-toe" skips the clutch out in neutral part and goes straight to the gear you want.

:party0030: Have fun, be safe.

thanks everyone for the clarification!

My first car had fucked up synchros, it was a 90 celica.

I've been double clutching and rev matching all my cars ever since. The 86 is a joy to do it in, I barely use my brakes in town lol. They're great techniques to master...it's just how much you want to put effort into it.

The funny thing is, Tyrese did that in 2 Fast 2 Furious in that race against the musclecars. My guess is that somebody told him what to do but not specifically which part of your foot does what.

This is my first manual car and I've been rev matching every time I downshift. Are you guys saying that rev matching is not required for this car?

This car is my first manual transmission as well. From my experience, if I don't rev match, the car will "lunge" forward. But when I do Rev match, it makes the car ride smoother.

It's not "required" for any car. It's just a good thing to do without any real drawback. It's smoother, helps speed up downshifting and lengthens the lifespan of the parts involved (i.e. clutch). Luckily now, there are a ton of resources (i.e. a thousand YouTube videos about it) to learn from, so you can probably practice it and more or less figure it out within a week or so.

I never rev match. Lazy.

On a similar note, does anyone else get a noticeable grind going into 3rd? It happens in most of the gears honestly from time to time but almost always going into 3rd. Feels like a bad syncro IMO.

I don't think anyone was saying rev matching is not required for this car, they were saying that double-clutching is not required for this car.

Well maybe, in a way, they were saying that rev matching is not REQUIRED for this car... as in you don't HAVE to do it because like any modern car it has synchros... but it is certainly a very, very good idea to rev match on your downshifts with any manual transmission.

Thanks for clarification. I will continue to rev match during downshifts. Never got around to learn about double clutch.

Just a stupid question, I've driven a stick for 11 years but when I downshift, I typically go from 6th/5th to 2nd with rev-matching below 60MPH, usually when I hit an offramp. Is that going to be problematic considering we can't skip gears upshifting without damaging synchros?

I can't make my leg do that either. I'm gonna need to get one of those gas pedal extension plates for my car though, 'cause when I wear normal shoes I can just barely grab both pedals with the sides of my foot, but when I wear my smaller, thinner shoes that I like to use for driving I can't get the right side of my foot to reach the gas :(

I usually down shift (always with rev matching) through 6/5/4 and then just ride 4th down to about 2k RPM and just put it in neutral for the final few MPH if coming to a stop.

If I am not coming to a stop I'll continue down to 3rd in the initial downshifting sequence and then continue onto the surface streets in 3rd.

If I only brought it down to 4th/neutral because I was expecting to stop but then the light turns green then I'll just go from neutral to whatever gear I so choose as appropriate for the current speed of the vehicle and the rate at which I want to accelerate... ie if I'm down at 25 I could go into 3rd to just cruise forward granny style or 2nd if I wanna gun it.

I've always been under the impression that if your car is currently in neutral and still travelling forward that you can throw it into whatever gear you want, some gears might need a bit of rev matching to get past the lockout but other than that I thought choosing your proper gear was fair game among all choices and part of the challenge of driving a stick.

I always saw my dad just going straight to 3rd or 2nd depending on his speed when I was growing up.

As for heel toe, it's easy to do the left/right rocker with the sides of size 13 shoes, and even easier with combat boots :D

You will not hurt the tranny by skipping gears going up or down.
There is noting magical inside that forces you to sequence through the gears in a certain order.

You most certainly CAN rev match going both up & down.
One thing I have noticed about this car: I cannot shift it without the clutch.
On all of my other cars I could rev match, and shift clutchless.
This car just does not let you do that.

Also, for those talking about heel toeing this car.... I'm not sure they have actually tried it:
1 - the pedals are not set up (very well) for heel & toe
2 - The ECU does some strange things when trying to heel toe (wont let the revs stay up with the clutch in) I believe.

It's not the BEST layout for heel-toeing, but it's not bad at all. It's way more pleasant to do it than in a 370Z, WRX/STI and a few other cars I can't remember.

Heel toe, skipping gears, and double clutching have nothing to do with what the OP is looking for: smooth gear changes. It takes finesse and practice and there's no right way to do it, find your own rhythm, watch a couple videos and don't worry about wannabe racecar drivers. Practice, everybody learns in time and the above whinging and ego stroking trying to show off your technique is inconsequential to seat time. KISS: Keep it simple stupid.

Last time I checked, heel-toeing does actually help with smooth (down)shifting.

1) The pedals are one of the best pedals I have ever done heel toe with compared to any other MT cars I've ever driven and better than a 97 Impreza that I dd. The only one that's probably better or equal to this car for me would be an 07 SI. Not sure if shoe size plays a factor with pedal but I wear size 10.

2) If the RPMs drop too low then you are either not giving it enough gas or you need more practice(The proper way). My ecu dont ever play any tricks to me gear-wise as far as I'm concerned. Keeping the revs up is what you the driver have to do, not the computer like what a 370Z would.

I just tried it again while driving.
It is definitely possible, but my pedals do not line up quite even with mild brake pressure. I know there is some adjustment on the brake side, I'll see if it can get it a little better.
The gas pedal is definitely too sensitive unless you are wearing driving shoes or barefoot (at least based on the shoes I am currently wearing).
My racecar is set up perfectly for it. The pedal hinges from the floor.
When you press it with your foot, it moves easily, but press with your heel and you have very little leverage so it is less sensitive.
Sometimes we actually stiffen up the pedal for less sensitivity when racing.

I believe it only applies at high RPM (above 5k). The engine has a different rev limit during shifting. I can look through the ECU tables to see what the RPM number it kicks in at.

As other people mentioned, double clutching is out of date thanks to modern gearboxes, but for an example of it, you can hear Mr. McQueen double-clutching through this clip:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBLOLi_Ex-Q"]Bullitt Chase - YouTube[/ame]

When you hear it, keep in mind he's putting the clutch in, shifting to neutral, clutch out, blip throttle, clutch in, next gear, clutch out, throttle open. All in under a second.

The funny thing is, I learned how to double-clutch before I learned how to rev-match. I had a mental hurdle when trying not to double-clutch (since it's not necessary), even though in my head I felt like I was breaking something by not doing it, haha.

Good point... got a little OT and distracted answering cantaloupe and DoomsdayJesus's questions. Really not trying to ego stroke or racecar wannabe so sorry if if the following seems like "showing off my technique"... just trying to pay it forward and do what was done for me in the past by passing on a bit of what I've figured out over the years. Yes, seat time is invaluable but everyone has different learning styles and I know I've certainly had my fair share of "ah hah" moments after reading or watching a well worded description or two. What sounds like gibberish nonsense to you might be exactly what someone else needed to hear in order for it to all click with them.

Rev matching during a downshift is an effective method of keeping those gear changes smooth on the way down. It is out of a desire for smoothness and the implied reduction in clutch wear that I even bother with all the effort of doing it so I can relate to the OP's want for smooth shifts.

So yes, twoodcc, as strat61caster said here... it takes finesse and practice so keep at it and honestly after 10 years of driving with 7+ years exclusively on manual transmissions I never actually knew how to rev match correctly (and very well might STILL be doing it incorrectly) until I got my FR-S and realized that I'd been doing something wrong all along since my downshifts in the FR-S were so harsh and one of my coworkers made a comment about me "just dropping the clutch". I wound up googling "how to rev match" and watching some videos on YouTube that night and it helped me a lot.

It turns out I'd always been trying to finesse the pedal and hold the RPM at the desired frequency during my shift or trying to do the "launch technique" type of pedal movement ie a "trading one pedal for another" type of movement where I would get back onto the gas at the same rate as I was letting off the clutch. That had worked just fine with my Honda transmissions which are like a sexy lady made of butter and covered with KY jelly for how slippy and smooth they are.

It turns out that the proper technique is more of a quick kick of the gas pedal RIGHT as you begin letting out the clutch (you gotta do it fast and smooth though) and now I've even found that if I downshift right at at a certain engine note each time I can pull off the rev match by simply whacking the pedal to the floor and letting off of it as fast as I can so I've taken all the guess work out of it as long as I do the shift at exactly the right engine RPM. The motion becomes: onto clutch, move lever, whack gas and off of clutch at the same moment... works like a charm every time if I do it right about when the engine note hits B sharp minor 5th ;)

Now it's something I do every time because it's just so darn satisfying to pull off a completely undetectable downshift as far as body-lurching goes (obviously you can still hear the RPM change) and it's not something I get right every time which makes it all the more satisfying and glorious when I do pull it off right.

Regarding shifting on the way up like you were asking about in the OP, I know exactly what you're talking about with the "holding it in the sweet spot for a second" thing and I still find myself doing that if I'm being lazy or haven't gotten into the right shifting rhythm for the day. For me I always feel like the motion my foot makes when I do manage to get an upshift that turns out perfectly smooth is like a slow-motion version of a rubber ball bouncing: one continuous motion of the foot that is quick on the way down, ramping up in movement speed as I approach bottoming, with a little pause at the bottom and then releasing a bit slower than I went on the way down, ramping down in speed until I'm completely off the pedal.

Sounds to me like you're 90% there... you just need to push on the gas LESS at this point in time. At least I know that whenever I do the "hold it in the sweet spot" thing and slip the clutch it's usually because I'm giving too much gas too early and subconsciously I know that if I fully let out the clutch it'll chirp the wheels and/or just be a rough shift so my body forces me to hold the clutch there for a bit while the wheels catch up to the engine.

You mentioned that it happens to you more at high RPM which is the same for me when I'm not in the zone... I usually attribute it to the fact that at low RPM I'm not feeling the need to jump forward like a jackrabbit as much so the moment of no acceleration during shifting isn't as noticeable and I'm more patient and deliberate with the getting back on the gas. When I'm at high RPM on the other hand that moment of no acceleration during the shift is much more noticeable so I find myself getting impatient with my back-on-the-gassyness so I start to give too much gas too early and then the above mentioned subconscious urge to avoid wheel chirping and rough shifting kicks in and makes me do the "hold it in the sweet spot" thing.

If that made any sense at all to you then cool I hope it helps... if not sorry to waste your time, just go drive more and figure out what works for you.

I've had plenty of frustrations with computers on this car, but heel/toeing hasn't been one of them. I don't heel/toe that often, but I rev-match all my downshifts and I've never had the computer intervene with anything, including rev-matched downshifts into first gear, which is a very big RPM difference.

Now, traction control intervention while the system is "turned off" is another story...

Ya, I get that!
I also get grind when fast shifting into second either racing off the line or sliding off the line sideways… :/

What the heck? Double clutching isn't necessary? Sure, you can shift without double clutching, but synchros wear out. Double clutching saves synchros. Do it. One extra pedal press, and the shifter will slide into gear like butter and do so indefinitely.

When your synchros get worn down downshifting without double clutching becomes extremely hard to impossible (I would know, my car's synchros are shot).

can someone record a video on the foot work?

I tried again this morning. I WAS able to upshift all 6 gears with no clutch.
If you want to see if you are hitting the correct RPMs for a shift, if you can do it without the clutch and no grinding, then you have found the sweet spot. Up to 3k, shift, it will usually drop right in at 2k.
Of course this will work at other rev ranges, but that is a start.

If you really want to disable traction control entirely, look up the "pedal dance". It actually works.

OP, have you tried adjusting the clutch engagement? It helped me get much smoother shifts in the BRZ.