Stock header ..
 

Just wondering how restrictive the stock header is.. I know there are lots of aftermarket ones available.. But I haven't seen what the stock one looks like..
It's got the heat shielding everywhere and it looks like a pancake.. Anybody seen one without all the shielding?
And is the shielding necessary to protect the other components nearby.. ?
The last car I put headers on was my 94 LT1 camaro.. I had them ceramic coated to keep the heat down.. Wrapping them caused them to crack..
That's was some time ago.. And I'm out of touch.. You all are making me feel old and slow with my stock FRS.. Thanks in advance..

I doubt the design is that terrible; the most restrictive part is probably the cat. Yes the heat shields will be to protect the components around it.

I know why the heat shields are there.. I was referring to the aftermarket pipes that aren't heat shielded .. How that will affect the durability of the surrounding components.. Hoping to see a naked stock header pic... Thanks

The big advantage of going with a header, equal length specifically, is if designed right they have been shown to remove the torque dip.

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UEL headers will do the same thing, and then some. Still n/a, too, just with an E85 tune.

Torque dip turned to torque bump, specifically a better looking bump than any EL header has dyno'd previously on these cars. :thumbup:

The header by itself won't really solve the dip issue, but a tune along with the header is where you see the largest gains. Can't go wrong with UEL or EL. Both are producing great numbers, but the EL offers options like catted on certain ones and interchangeable V-band clamps to convert to a turbo manifold from NA. I prefer the sound of the UEL though.

A tuner local to me is going to remove the cat in the stock header and replace it with a decat pipe. Hopefully will have the results soon.

P&L torque curve looks better to me. A tune does really help out though.

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P&L EL on E85

JDL UEL on E85

It's pretty obvious the JDL has a better, flatter torque curve from 2000 rpms on and 9 more ft/lbs peak torque... :thumbsup:

Back on topic!

That's a different dyno than the one they have posted now.

Only thing I'm looking at is shape. Different dynos get different numbers.

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Same peak TQ numbers on both dynos from P&L. Those are the exact same dynos, just the one in their advertisement has smoothing applied to it to make it look better for the ad. They also dont start the E85 tune torque line until 3200 rpms....

The JDL is already making more torque at the same 3200 rpms spot where the P&L E85 dyno begins. :)

I see now they have the same numbers.

The uel looks good. Are they able to keep the same general shape of the torque curve on pump gas? I personally would rather have the option to have a cat.

I still wouldn't trust absolute numbers between 2 different dynos. I'm sure the P&L was done on a different dyno than the uel car.
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Well nobody has dyno'ed the JDL UEL header on a a 93 oct pump gas tune yet, but very soon @moto-mike will be doing one on an otherwise stock car. I think at least 190whp is agreeable tuned on pump gas, but Mike has said in other threads he thinks that 200whp on pump gas is doable with the right supporting mods!

Since you seem insistent on taking shots, The JDL dyno as I've pointed out to you before, but you choose to ignore, includes an intake, while the P&L dyno does not giving you better numbers. There is also another dyno using the catted version that starts sooner.

Additionally, those dynos were taken after only a few e-tunes. Their intent was to show that the Header makes significant gains. My car was tuned due to a limited schedule, and it had to come off the dyno so I could get to work. Meanwhile the JDL dyno was made by a quality tuner who got to spend a lot of time with the car getting the tune perfect.

Lastly, as I've pointed out to you before as well, my baseline starts at 160 ending at 198.81. The JDL starts at a much higher baseline

It's good that you're rooting for JDL and all, I root for P&L, but I also don't badmouth other vendors while I do it, and let the product stand for its self.

http://community.us.playstation.com/...v=mpbl-1&px=-1

Not taking shots, just pointing out which header currently has dyno's posted with the best looking torque curve and most peak horsepower of any n/a BRZ/FR-S to date. P&L are happy enough with the limited time spent tuning with their EL header to put that dyno chart in an advertisement. If they felt it needed more revisions with intakes added then certainly they are at liberty to do so...

A Meme.. how original.

I think we've all learned to take vendor #'s with a grain of salt. P&L IS comfortable with the fact that my dynos show gains, and they are waiting for 3rd party dynos. They don't want to over claim, and under deliver.

Don't worry though, there should be about 30-40 out there in the next month or so, with lots of dynos to follow.

Where does it state that dyno is from an UEL header? I skimmed and can't see where it says which header was used for those charts.

In the third sentence of that post.

To the OP, here is the best picture of the stock header I have right now.
http://blog.perrinperformance.com/wp...r1-550x335.jpg

Thank you!

Wow, I must've been blind. I read that post at least 5 times and couldn't see it.

Have a look at THIS thread. There are pics of the stock header and most of the aftermarket ones. Plus videos for sound and dyno charts. Dont use the dynos to compare max power, use them to compare the shape of torque curves.

E85 matters little here...just shift the curve 10 hp or so. The tune we used gains ~20 hp over stock with e85, 10 hp over stock with pump. Curve is exactly the same with both. But yes we'll test with 93 once it gets here. Hopefully we'll have a p&l to test too, then we can compare them fairly with a developed tune for both.

I'm half tempted to drive out there and see what you can do with my car.

It would be worth the trip :thumbup:

Mike is the Mann :thumbsup:

Plus it would be cool to compare cars/ headers on the same day and dyno.

Don't forget Moto-East doesn't own these Dyno's, we have to use other shops for testing so no trickery here.


Simmons

Hi. I'm hesitant to buy header JDL (uel) catted.
We do not want to change melody ECU
... without changing melody ECU any performance increase?
you believe that coating is sufficient to control heat? It gives the feeling that OEMs with heat shield must be more effective for this.
Thank you