NA water meth injection?
 

Random question time, and I am pretty tired and on my iPad so... It might not make a lot of sense.

Anyway. I have been a bit jealous of folks with tunes on e85 getting extra power. I want some too, but I don't have e85 readily available.

Would it be possible to add a water meth injection kit to avoid detonation with an aggressive tune on 93 octane? I have heard of it in turbo applications but never in a naturally aspirated car.

People who know more than me, please help!

It's being researched to see if it will make any power for the same reason you stated, not everybody can get E85.

I don't know if it's been installed yet or tuned but the plan is out there. @FA20Club.com

The kit is here just have to find some time to get it installed on a stock car for testing....?

I would be against it. It's not as safe in a way as E85. Why people are shifting away and going the E85 route. If for any rain the pump goes, there goes the motor. Not sure it would be as beneficial going this route in NA as a turbo.

Running a straight Methanol no water would be best. Water is used to cool the charge. Since there is no turbo present it doesn't really do much. Meth on the other hand give more fuel and will keep detonation at bay so I could see some benefits to it. Lean out the GAS add Meth make more POWER.

It's possible to program in failsafes for cases like the pump dying or the water lever drops too low... such as map switching.

Or you know, just pressing on the accelerator a little less.

Don't tease like that :bonk:

Theres only so much you can advance the timing in the window... not sure methanol injection would be worth it, it would increase the octane rating, but not sure youd really be able to do much with it. If your gonna spray methanol, you might as well spray nitrous, safer and bigger power numbers.

Spraying nitrous sounds a lot more dangerous than spraying methanol to me...methanol is just fuel, and it's "better" for the engine than gasoline since it cools the air more. Nitrous is adding oxidizer, and thus increasing burn temperature significantly. Of course, this gives you a ton more power as well.

91 octane oxygenated American beer is what we get for gas here. Any help with raising the effective octane would be great.

Injecting nitrous is much safer. I explained in another thread, but will do so again, that nitrous is n2O, meaning two nitrogen and an oxygen atom. During the combustion process the nitrogen is seperated form the oxygen, leaving free floating oxygen in the combustion chamber, oxygen is air, meaning your doing nothing more than putting more air into the combustion chamber, the free floating nitrogen acts as a buffer to prevent detonation and compressed nitrous sprays at a temperature of +- -127*F
The increased power comes from the combustion of the pure unbonded oxygen. Obviously trying to shove 500hp shot is not safe, but a 50shot would be perfectly fine. even a 25 shot or a 20 shot if they made nozzels that small would be able to produce more of a hp/tq # than methanol.

Difference is nos is a limited use application while a meth/water kit is continously running. There are other great benefits to meth/water kits too like that it helps with carbon build up in parts or the engine like the combustion chamber. They work best in high compression engines and because they lower the air temp coming in they are even better when combined with FI. But we will see soon wont we FA20Club.com :)

100% meth is not very safe. Water also helps dilute the meth in order to keep things safe under the hood. As you said though water is used for cooling which actually sweats on the cylinder walls. A 60-40 mix would probably be good, but in our case E85 would probably be a lot easier to accomplish the power gains.

A 50/50 ratio is what most meth kit companies consider to be the optimum blend. And I think this is aimed more at those who don't have easy or no access to e85

I'm looking into this for my BRZ. Alaska's highest octane is 90, but minimum required is 91.

I'm told to look into the Honda high compression motors to see what people have used there. I messaged Snow Performance to get a better idea of what to do.

Water/meth has been around since 1920's, so I'm not too concerned with what can happen to the engine. I just don't like pumping 90 octane in it all the time.

Talking to aquamist about getting a kit. Several hundred bucks, just a couple hundred to install and tune. Not bad.

How about both?

So did you guys ever test this?

You'll make more power with nitrous, but meth is a lot easier to come by...

Plus way cheaper

I'm personally thinking of throwing a meth kit on the car.

Keep in mind you'll need a tune to take advantage of using meth

Not looking for nitrous. Hate it. Plus, it's not easily accessible whatsoever and highly illegal where I'm from.

I want to know if somebody has tested a meth kit on our cars yet. Being as we have a very high compression ratio, I think we might benefit from meth injection to keep detonation down.

Self install is possible !

NEVAR!!!

Nah, you're probably right. I'm still not sure if I want to go this route anyways. I know it's tried and true for many applications since World War II planes, but not sure about 2013 FT-86 application.

I have the wires to the ecu down so its not rocket science as far as which wires to tap, using positap its clean too, no need for extension harnesses, and a plug n play location for tank etc in our car if you use the same tank as me. the venting of the tank i did a custom job on but its not hard. You do drill holes to mount the pump but its easy drilling. If you run a vortech, they recently supplied me with a dimpled cast pipe that's plenty thick to tap for a jet. I been busy on test an install stuff, I need to tune next and last for power.

Now, I can't comment at all on its value in a NA application, but as its new to me, it comes pretty well recommended from more than a few of the tuners I trust for FI.

As long as you've got some form of internal combustion there's way to make it work.

I think for a high compression NA application like our 4ugse, a small port injection system using a sophisticated monitoring and injection system would make water/meth injection beneficial. It's like "helper octane" when you need it; and cleaner too! But most importantly, it's the cleaning action that injection creates that makes me a fan of water/meth injection systems. I have one installed on my MR2 turbo and my butt-dyno agrees with the horsepower increase. It's also great to know that my internals are getting steam cleaned. Injection is a must to have installed on any forced induction system.

But the reason why I ask about a water/meth injection kit is that the only clean gas around my parts is 91 v-power. The fa20 requires 93 to run optimally. I hate choking the motor with 91 so I am looking for an alternative way to increase octane points effectively and easily.

Good points. My interest in it is because Alaska's highest is 90 Octane. However, several tuners have told me that the ECU learns to compensate for the "poorer" gas, so it's not actually hurting anything, but you are losing optimal power. So for me, water/meth would be nice for maximizing power. I think once I go header, intake, full exhaust and tune I might as well include water/meth because if the engine goes, it's going to go no matter what, water/meth or not.

Reviving an old thread. Has anyone actually hooked up a meth injection or meth/water injection system on an FA20 yet?

Beginning the research phase now in contemplation of adding this in conjunction with a Phantom ESC versus simply running E85.