My Test Drive Impressions
 

Preface: this is long (scan to end for TL;DR) and I've underlined certain words in case you're looking for steering feel, ride quality, engine power, transmission feel, clutch feel, etc. My day job means I drive classic Porsches every day, and occasionally drive 993s/996s/997s. My dailies are a Mini Countryman Cooper S, Jeep Wrangler and '95 Range Rover Classic and my occasional weekend car is a '92 240SX that weighs less than 2250lbs. Previous cars include an e30 325i, E36 325iS and NA6 Miata.

I drove a manual FR-S a couple weeks back. I liked it well enough, but it wasn't quite up to my expectations as far as certain reviewers made it seem. The dealership had added TSW Interlagos wheels in 18x8 with 225/40R18 Pirelli P Zero Nero All Season tires, TRD exhaust, and a tint job to bring the total to $29,xxx. In addition to the near-constant modifications to manual cars prior to sale to increase their profit margin, the dealership also expressed negativity at people wanting to test drive the FR-S with a manual transmission. The word “joy ride” was mentioned by either a salesman or a sales manager while I walked by, and I overheard that they didn't want any more test drives that day... piss poor response to a car that enthusiasts are actually interested in. If it wasn't for Jim, the salesman who I worked with, I would've stopped, told them that they just lost a sale, and driven 30 miles south to the other closest dealership. This was a SoCal inland dealership, and one of the highest-volume FR-S dealers.

Compared to my S13 when it was nearly stock, the FR-S is far more playful. The S13 defaulted to understeer, even with trail braking; the FR-S defaults to neutral with perhaps slight oversteer, especially under trail braking. It's more willing to change line mid-corner and the steering is as direct as others have noted. However, that same direct steering doesn't provide the same level of feedback as that in my wife's Mini Cooper S Countryman; I am willing to accept that the feedback may have been spoiled by the wheel/tire combination, but the OD is within .1" between the two sizes, and the TSW/Pirelli combination is within a pound of the factory wheel/tire combination. I must admit serious disappointment with the steering feedback.

The FR-S, and keep in mind that I've only driven one with the larger aftermarket wheel/tire combination, rides very firmly- firmer than I was expecting. The 225/40R18s have .5" less sidewall and are slightly less pinched than the stock 215/45R17s so that explains some of the firmness, but otherwise the car isn't set up for SoCal roads. I was expecting more compliance and am trying to get a test drive in a car equipped with the factory wheel/tire combination for a comparison. The ride quality was similar to my S13 with 9k/7k springs over double-adjustable Konis and with 245/40s. Edit: After a little research, these tires do have a reputation for being firm over broken pavement, but that doesn't explain how firm the suspension was.

Though the suspension was overly firm, it was fairly well-controlled. I didn't have a chance to drive hard, and we had at least 500lbs on board, but I pushed it a little and was reasonably impressed with the damping, especially in the rear where it usually is skimped on. However, the excessive firmness is likely due to valving the dampers to feel sporty; luckily Toyota didn't go with the BMW "walking on tiptoes" firmness.

Shift action and feel were superb. Nicely spaced ratios (up to my test drive max of 60mph), gates well-placed and unobtrusive, and the shifter's mechanical action was very good. Granted, it's no new S2000 feel, but it was certainly on par with a 70k mile car I drove for a couple days a while back. The clutch is too soft, but then again, I haven't driven anything with a hydraulic clutch in a while. It's not that it wasn't feelsome, it certainly was, it just was too soft- I prefer something heavier.

The engine is powerful enough for the application, though I never revved it past 4500 and into the actual horsepower range. I've no gripes with it, and the torque is acceptable. It made decent enough noise through the TRD exhaust, but the TRD exhaust is a drony, miserable piece of crap. Even the salesman had to voice his displeasure at the tiring booming. Good noise under full throttle, though. Can't argue with the efficiency, as many are reporting 30+mpg on the highway.

Seats are supportive and comfortable. Ergonomics are good. There's plenty of headroom for my 6' self, and I have a long torso. I didn't bother with the back seat, as it'd be for my dogs or for emergency transportation of my friends.

I'm on the fence- I like the car, but I don't love it, and the lack of feedback as well as the horrid ride mean that I'd have to modify the car immediately with revalved Bilsteins by Shaikh at Fat Cat Motorsports as well as replacing the FLCAs with something less compliant in the hopes of creating feel.

After a week of thinking about it, I wrote the following- I'm honestly not sure what I think of it now. The more I think about it, the more I realize how displeased I was with the ride and steering feedback.

Most magazines are packed for space and don't bother explaining past "firm ride," and most people don't live near the pock-marked and ridged twisties I do. Most people also equate firm with sporty, which is a very common misconception. This car is firm but not crashy, it won't jar your fillings out but what it will do is slow you down over the rough stuff. The rough stuff is the fun stuff, and moving quickly over that stuff separates the men from the boys.

The steering feel just isn't that good. It's a lot better than the majority of what's out there currently, but that's not enough for me. My guess, based on the pictures of the LCA bushings, is that there's a little too much NVH isolation, which absolutely kills feedback. Caster's a little on the light side, too. For the vast majority of people, especially those coming from AWD and FWD cars, and those who have a daily commute on the highway, the car probably has great feel. For me, it needs serious work as my car's redeem themselves cresting a dusty hill with exposure on each side and I need to know exactly what they're doing at every moment.

I was psyched and ready to buy one, but I need to justify the price increase of ~$2200 just to make it a decent driver's car... and I don't know if I can.

TL;DR- If you're coming from an econobox, any other Scion, a pig, or the vast majority of vehicles on the road, this car feels light, lithe and sparkling in the twisties, as well as sporty. The engine/transmission combination could be incredible when on serious boil. It's a great sports car for people weaned on modern cars lacking a little chutzpah.

If you're coming from a Miata, MX-5, or something with great steering feel and a decent ride through the twisty bits, or have experience with properly damped cars, or you've had cars that talked to you through the wheel and let you know exactly what the front end was doing whenever your fingertips were touching the wheel, you will be very disappointed and you should not believe the hype. As it is, the car is NOT Toyobaru's gift to drivers. It's a great car, but a mediocre sports car- just on the lack of steering feel alone.

There have been threads on this before. The problem with the FR-S is that it is a car you need to get to know. Unlike most cars, that reveal themselves in the first few hours, the FR-S learns along with its driver. You cannot accurately assess the excellence of its seats, the tractability of its engine, the amazing responsiveness of its steering to your inputs and the general excellence of the suspension on a test drive. You are selling yourself short, if you walk away from the test driving thinking that you know the car.

no offense but i definitely didn't read your whole post, just the TL;DR. Everybody is entitled to their own opinion, but I'm not sure if you're trolling or just looking to get flamed. ton's of people here are coming from miata's, s2000's, SX's and Zx's, 3 and m series, even caymans and lotuses and are loving the way the FRS and BRZ feels. Not really sure why you're comparing the power to an s2000 though, since that's a 35k car. a turbo or a supercharger can easily fix that problem for you and it still wouldn't make up the 10k difference. you're only paying 25k for an FRS and you're getting a hell of a ride for that price. that's why there is so much hype. There's no other car in the market right now that can offer the fun and performance that the FRS/BRZ's can, especially not at such a low cost.

I disagree. I can easily determine if a car is not for me during an average-length test drive. But if nothing is glaringly obvious (that I dislike), then I'll admit that a little more seat time might be a good idea to help sway me one way or another. As long as I have a chance to drive a car in various conditions (back roads & highways, smooth roads & rough roads, uphill & downhill, straight roads & curvy roads, etc...) then I'll be 100% certain if I have any interest in actually buying the car.

I just wanted to say I enjoyed reading what you wrote. Its nice to see someone with a keen eye and have faults with the car. Anyone who says this car is perfect is blind. I came from a semi econ box 2008 VW Jetta 2.5 SE. For me even in stock form, the FR-S is a big upgrade in the areas that count. My advice if you buy an FR-S, get one at MSRP so you can use that extra bit for extras and mods. I know its hard, but they are out there. About the clutch many people share your same opinion, but if you search, there is an easy DYI guide on how to adjust the clutch.

Everyone's loving it, guess he just wants to much out of a car under 30 grand...

TSW Interlagos? This one, in +35 offset?
If yes - you do realize that your opinion about steering feedback is pretty much worthless, right? Lower offset + all season tires both kill steering feedback. Go drive a stock one and come back after that.

It sounds like that dealership really made a mess of the car with those modifications (excluding the TRD exhaust... i guess). I would recommend driving a stock FR-S or BRZ with the original wheels and tires and let us know what you think. The car is for driving fun. Putting larger wheels and wide tires is specifically what Toyota wanted to avoid with this car (Actually one of the three design limitations Toyota put on the car).

Also, without those mods you end up saving close to $5000. That $5000 can be much better spent once you get to know the car better and can make an educated decision on where to improve certain characteristics of the car based on your driving style.

Second this. It's always interesting to get different perspectives, even if we don't like what we hear :)

:popcorn:

Those low profile tires/big wheels would almost certainly be the reason for your ride harshness complaints. If you get a stock car and put more comfortable tires on it, I don't think you would complain about it anymore.

But the lack of steering feedback was also my biggest disappointment from the test drives; although, realistically, no new car is going to have as good of feedback as your old sports cars so I can learn to live with it.

I only had a short test drive in an FR-S, and I was disappointed with the lack of steering feedback too, especially the dead spot on center. As you say, however, it's still better than most new cars. At least grip levels come through the wheel, and I absolutely loved the car as a whole.

Unfortunately, with the switch to electric assist, great steering feel is being sacrificed on the altar of fuel economy and packaging efficiency. Even BMW can't get it right. The only EPS system I've really liked is in the new Focus ST, because it has strong on-center feel that provides a sense of connection absent from most cars with EPS. I hope engineers can figure out how to infuse EPS systems with old-school feedback, but I'm afraid the numbness will become the "new normal," and we'll be stuck with it.

Hm. I drove my friend's one and wasn't impressed. It felt empty.

http://thumbs.newschoolers.com/index...&size=400x1000


1/10 for the effort OP.

It's amazing that anyone who posts a review or an opinion that isn't 100% in favor of the car is automatically labeled as a troll. Actually, it's not amazing, it's very sad. Personally, I see nothing at all trollish in the OP's words.

belong to any rover clubs or boards bro?

ditto. eps is better executed on the new 3 series and our cars. We were all gung ho to buy a focus ST but disappointed after a few test drives...We buy alot of cars, and my relationship with certain dealerships affords me lets just say extended time on test drives. We really wanted to like it but steering was soooo dull.

It might help if you can hide the fact that you're both from 4chan.. But apparently you both fail miserably at that. :thumbdown:

Try bone dry stock then form a reasonable impression. I have never heard harsh ride comments previously.

.

4chan? I have no idea what you're talking about. Sorry.

Edit: Okay, so I googled "4chan". It's another message board/forum. And you think I'm from there? LOL. I never even heard of it until I read your post. Sorry, but your detective skills are weaksauce.

The engine is powerful enough for the application, though I never revved it past 4500 and into the actual horsepower range.


LOL

that's like saying you drove a VTEC honda but you never actually let VTEC kick in y0

Super cool story :thumbsup: We all love to play a game of pretend
I guess we shall all shiver to White Shadow the kindergarten lawyer
Now let's all sing along!
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XZGHOxnCto"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XZGHOxnCto[/ame]

You are 100% certain about a car after a test drive?

To quote Donald Rumsfeld (U.S. Secretary of Defense), "there are things we know, there are things we know that we don't know, and there are things we don't know that we don't know."

Don't look now, but you're being a troll. Not a very good one, but a troll nonetheless.

Keep at it, trollboy.

Like I said, a test drive is all I need to know if a car is not the car for me. If I'm on the fence, I'd probably want to drive it more than once.

Cool opinion bro but I can't hear you over the sound of your rage
Keep sippin your haterade, little boy :)

Go back to troll school, kid. I've seen better from absolute amateurs.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-XUSZpQsdv2...-dont-LIKE.jpg
This single picture sums up your entire purpose of being on this board :)
you're welcome to leave as nobody here gives a f*** about your butthurt opinions.
/thread

LOL and I suppose you speak for the entire forum? Sorry junior, but I think you need to take a long hard look in the mirror and realize that you act like a 10-year-old.

BTW, are you still all awkward when someone pulls up next to you in a competing car? LOLOLOL. You got issues, kid. Deal with them and then maybe we can have an adult conversation. Or maybe not.:thumbup:

Okay, I'm done crapping all over this guy's thread. Have fun continuing with your trollish behavior.

He picks a name that a 12 year old forum roleplayer suffering from aspergers would pick, puts batmobile and gotham city in his profile, and expects people to take him seriously.
0/10, too easy.
It's like he's not even trying anymore :lol:

Um...since you brought it up, I'll have to chime in one more time to school you on my forum name. "White Shadow" is an old TV show about a white basketball coach who coached a team of primarily black & latino basketball players. I happen to be white and I coach a team of black & latino basketball players, so "White Shadow" or sometimes just "Shadow" is my nickname.

Okay, seriously now, run along child. Or just keep on trollin' away. But try harder from now on, m'kay? You're really starting to make yourself look like a fool at this point.

I may be starting but you've already accomplished that from day 1. Cheers.
Lol.. Child telling an adult "child", Now my strawberry sh** sundae is complete.
Also, You must be new to the internet, welcome aboard.

you two guys ought to get "married"

Personally I don't think you really get to know the car until you get it on track, either an actual track or a more open auto-x event.

Only after my first track event, when I could turn off the electronic controls and really feel the amazing balance of the car and the response the chassis offered was I truly in love with it.

Never going over 4500rpm, having 500lb of people in the car, using a different wheel and tire package, and having full electronics on is not the experience you should use to judge the car.

Something it wouldn't hurt for every one to keep in mind.

You should never argue with an idiot. They will bring you down to their level and then beat you with experience.

I know...I got suckered into that one. I learned my lesson though. The forum idiot will no longer bring me down! LOL

Couldn't have said it better bro but it's too tempting to oust out a blatant amateur troll and put'em in his place.

I tested a 2012 328i Sport Line, and thought its steering was much worse than the FR-S's or the Focus ST's. It had even less feel than the steering in my TSX, which I found shocking, and yes, I did drive it in sport mode. I drove an early sample though, and apparently BMW had made some adjustments since then. I'll find out Tuesday when I'm scheduled to try a newer one with the Variable Sport Steering option that, according to some, provides better feedback.

Even though I liked the Focus ST's steering, I'm not claiming it actually provides loads of feedback, i.e., information from the road surface. The FR-S might be better in that respect, but I thought the Ford felt more "locked in" on center, which is equally important for my daily driving, but probably not nearly as important in the twisties, where my Acura's steering actually works pretty well due to its decent weight and linear response. FWIW, the FR-S had the only other EPS system I've tried and actually liked. I preferred it to the 3 Series for sure.

One of these days I'll try an ST and FR-S/BRZ back-to-back over some good roads to get a better sense of how they compare, but even based on my relatively short test drives, I thought the FR-S was much more fun to drive overall.

LRR forums, but I lurk and post WTB ads occasionally. I don't need to make a thread every time something goes wrong- it's a Rover, stuff goes wrong all the time and it's not terribly complicated.

To everyone else:

People I respect liked the car, so I figured it was right up my alley; a car I could leave relatively stock and actually enjoy the hell out of. I like the way it looks, I like its ergonomics, I think Toyota and Subaru did a commendable job with the chassis and I had only two quarrels with it- the ride and the steering feel. I'd still prefer it over literally any other car out there, but I place a lot of emphasis on ride and steering feel.

It's not about time behind the wheel; thirty seconds is enough to tell you whether or not a car communicates properly. It takes longer to figure out if damping is set up well, which is why my test drive took 20 minutes rather than 5 and never once set rubber on the freeway.

Never compared power to anything else. Frankly, I think it's a good amount of power and the torque was far more accessible than in the S2000. I don't rev out dealership cars- how many of you would like people to say that they hamfistedly redlined your car before you bought it? The engine is literally the least important piece of the puzzle; it can always be molded to fit. Hell, my 240 dynos at less power than the stock 4U-GSE and runs out of breath at 5900rpm. I liked the 4U-GSE's initial power delivery and it made enough power at 4500rpm to satisfy my needs- like I said, I used to own an NA6 and drive 356s every day, power ain't high on my agenda.

It's not about the price tag; the MX-5 has better steering feedback and it's cheaper in base form- but it also makes less power and gets worse mileage, so I understand the compromise that needed to be made. The electric power steering just doesn't need to be so anesthetized.

The TSWs also come in 18x8 +45 for a 5x100 application and based on the way they filled the arches (or didn't, rather), they were not +35s.

PS- Frosty, you having a hard time accepting the fact that people aren't as enamored with your ride as you are? I have 8 years and $30k+ in my ugly, slow 240SX and plenty of people dislike 240s- doesn't bother me a bit. Grow some cojones.

you dont know any car till you have had it sideways at the track...