Toyota some what confirms Celica successor
 

http://www.topgear.com.ph/news/toyot...his-Weeks-Poll

We sat down with Toyota 86 chief engineer Tetsuya Tada during an international media event for the groundbreaking compact RWD sports car, and he shared with us some of his company's future product plans. According to Tada, the 86 is just the first of three sports cars that Toyota is planning to roll out, and that the 86 is the middle of the two in terms of market positioning.
"The first is more mass-market and cheaper than the 86," Tada revealed. "And the third is more upmarket than the 86."
When asked if the higher-end sports car is the successor to the Supra, Tada said it could possibly be but that nothing is sure yet since his team is still in the process of conceptualizing the two other Toyota sports cars. He also noted that it takes five years to develop a sports car from conceptualization to production, as compared with the three years it normally takes to develop a regular vehicle.
Prior to the 86, Toyota's last sports car in production was the MR-S.
If you had a choice, which Toyota sports car would you like to be revived?

The only sporty/sports car that Toyota ever made that held my interest was the MR-2. I didn't care too much for the 1st generation but the one that followed always reminded me of a baby Ferrari.

The MR2, but it will be interesting how light they'll make it and what design language they want to express. Gen I and Gen III were of the lightweight, minimal, short wheelbase group, while Gen II is more in line with the FR-S, just with a mid engine setup.

I'll be impressed if they use the 2AR-FE engine out of the 2013 Scion TC to just undercut the FR-S's engine output, but I think they'll use the 2AZ-FE for more of a power cushion. Either engine in a lighter platform should provide ~160hp and 25/33mpg with related drivetrain gearing.

I have a prediction..

Didn't they say we wouldn't get the Scion here as a convertible, but the rest of the world may as a Toyota?

MR2, a new 2-seater inexpensive convertible sports car, and the Supra as their new high end.

Exiting news!

Hoping for something RWD with LSD for the " cheaper mass market model"...
And much lower CO2 compared to FR-S, with a little decrease in HP.

Something like this!
http://imagehostinghosting.com/di-1313060333231.jpg

Celica might be coming back as the cheaper one... it'll probably be more expensive than the tC, 6 speed like the old one, hopefully a hatch... likely with a relatively high revving inline 4. I doubt the MR-S will come back since it's lack of practicality was a major turn off to many buyers.

New MR2.. if it's good you'll see this ad from me "FS: 2013 WRB BRZ Limited".

Really? Never knew you were MR2 fan.

I'd love to see a proper new supra, even though it would be way out of my price range.

As far as the celica goes, with the FR-S and TC they really should do something drastic like bringing back a turbo AWD version to compete with the WRX / EVO, if it's just a plain jane sporty FWD it really needs to be something to compete with the SIR / MS3, etc…

The MR2, well it just has no competition :D

I love MR2s :)

I'm excited to see another MR-S/MR2. I hope it follows in the footsteps of the previous gen. Light and agile. If it's something equivalent to the MR2 with a 2ZZ, I might have to trade in my FRS for that.

My personal opinion but I have never considered a Supra a sports car. More of a GT car. (Yes, I have owned one in the past.) So I hope that the low end car is the Celica replacement and the higher market car is the MR2 replacement. Take that Toybaru flat four and drop it in a two seater mid-engined chassis with a six speed bolted up behind it. You could probably even make it low enough that you could have a rear trunk ala the Porsche Boxster and Cayman thus solving the only real complaint that anyone had about the Spyder (except the Pikachu face).

Five years is too long to wait though!

5 years seems like a perfect time to sell my BRZ. :shrug: :)

Oh man, I would probably sell my FR-S if they make a new MR2. Love the MR2.

MR fking 2!

Since it'll be affordable. I don't think I'll be able to afford a supra. :<

Your opinion, which side MR2 to be? Cheaper than 86 or expensive than 86?

But I am passing on the BRZ/FR-S because I already have a Spyder.

In 2000 the MR2 Spyder cost almost as much as the FR-S does in 2013 ($23558 vs $24930). I estimate that a lightweight mid-engined sports car will now go around $32K if it steals a lot of parts from the FT86 (suspension, brakes, motor, seats and interior bits). If they go with one of the Scion inline fours and transaxles they might be able to do it a little cheaper but in my opinion that would be a step back evolutionary wise.
@TOYOTA: Please work the bugs out of the FA20 and put it in a 2200LB MR2 Spyder replacement! Pretty Please?

Taking all "back then" stuff out. What YOU want MR2 to be in this view. You want it cheaper or expensive than 86?

I'd want what Rampage says, and I guess cheaper than the 86 because I'd rather see the more expensive one be more powerful and have a NA 6cylinder. Strictly just IMHO, of course :)

That's fine. That's what I wanted hear.

My view, I want to see lightweight 1.6~1.8L FF car to compete w Golf & other affordable compact cars & next MR2 to be a bit expensive side than 86 to compete against Porsche Boxster &/or Carrera.

For the consumer, cheaper is always better but I am a realist. Lightweight cost money. Chassis have to be engineered in such a way that they are light but very stiff for a true sports car. Lightweight materials have to be used more extensively. As much as I would like to see a cheap MR2, I just do not think it will happen. I also do not think Toyota should take on Porsche. We need manufacturers that will build exciting cars for the everyday consumer. The German manufacturers have lost sight of that. Hopefully, Toyota, Mazda, Nissan and Hyundai will fill the void in the future.

The other thing is that an MR2 has pretty much zero chance of chassis sharing, which makes development a bit more expensive. Hence the Camry motor on the North American NA SW20...

I still have a suspicion that the WRX chassis will be based on the BRZ.

I do agree that lightweight isn't cheap.

That's why my hope for 1.6~1.8L FF will be cheap & fun to drive. Look at current Civic... it's HUGE! That happen to that lightweight Civic that we used to know? It's gone! Yeah, safety & other stuff causes weight... I get it, but still it's total POS!

As for German manufactures have lost sight? IDK, if that was the case, Porsche Carrera S shouldn't of won Best Driver's Car. ;)

AWD Turbo Celica

Perhaps what he meant is that, for example, BMW has lost sight of what it was when it gave us the 2002, the E30, and even the E36 - in a world where you had to choose between practical and fun, and between affordable and fun, they brought us cars that were affordable, practical for DD and even family-hauling, *and* were nimble and fun.

And I hear you about the Civic. I look at the current ones and have to really think hard to convince myself that I'm not just dreaming that it really did used to be a small lightweight fun car.

Haha I think we're actually saying the same thing, just slotting the names in different places. I was thinking the higher-end Boxster/Carrera fighter would be the new Supra and the MR2 would compete with the hot hatches. Either way, yeah, I'd like to see them bring us one in each category, and all of them RWD and focused on being driver's cars.

I kinda wish Tada-san other other Toyota developers will hold on to making Supra as of right now... Reason? Cuz they already tease about new sports car is in develop and making other ppl wait for those sports car instead of buying 86... which gonna hurt them (kind of). So when they have enough 86 sold and at least have 2nd or 3rd gen 86 out, bring Supra out. They had enough tests using 86 and making it next gen Supra.

but that's just me.

Im guessing the majority of people when never know about the future Toyota sport cars before they are official.. So not much of a problem..

Why wait for something that might come in 5 years that you may not be happy with?

Haha I should stop using specific names altogether :-P I still think we're saying more or less the same thing. I like the news that they are promising sports cars both above and below the 86. Appeal of the GTI and the Mini notwithstanding, I can't really warm up to a FWD sports car. My DD is FWD, but I do not demand or expect any kind of performance from it. So I'd like to see even the below-86 car be RWD, and even lighter and smaller than the 86, and cheaper, of course. Hmmm... that would be the Elise except for the cheaper part. The car above the 86 should compete with the Big Kids but at a lower price point, sort of how the GT-R and Corvette ZR-1 (and even the Z06) do, but with the famous Toyota reliability.

Who's talking about waiting? :) I'm in the camp with the people saying if the new ones stand up to the promises, then I'd trade in the FR-S (which I haven't even bought yet, lol, but I do intend to once I've made room in the toybox and after the dust settles a little on the engine issues).

einzlr and ichitaka05, I pretty much agree on everything you guys are saying here! :)

Ill continue some of my toughs about FF hatches in this thread.. there is a lot of those 1.6-2.0l cars!

What I meant by that was that the Germans no longer make lightweight performance cars that are affordable to buy and maintain. Most of us who are interested in any car Toyota builds will never be able to afford a new Porsche of any kind let alone the Carrera. Even if we could buy it we could not afford the insurance and maintemence. The same applies to BMW and Mercedes.

If cost had been a consideration then the BRZ would have won that competition by a mile. Only in the world of exotics is cost never a consideration. We can all dream of owning one but for most of us that is all it will ever be, a dream.

Give me a MR2 or FR-S that I can drive at 7-8/10th and keep your overpriced exotics that will spend their automotive lives in a garage or on the road never exceeding 4/10th. Nice to look at but I wouldn't want to own one unless I was just stupid rich and had nothing better to do with my money.

^ I think a lot of people had high hopes for BMW's 1 series. Hoping for something in the Golf price range and maybe size, but RWD. Instead they made a very slightly smaller and very slightly less expensive 3 series. At least in North America. No 4 cylinder version for us, and I bet it was that they didn't want to hurt Mini sales.

You've pretty much nailed it. In BMW enthusiast circles people were hoping for a return to BMW's roots, epitomized by the E30. The 1-series was much anticipated and then a big let-down when it actually came out. Good point about competing with the Mini; I hadn't thought of that, but also generally people were expecting the new car to be somewhere above the Mini price range but well below where the 3-series had crept up to.

If so, you may see a PM from us saying "WTB: WRB BRZ."

What. The North American Camry does not even use a 2AZ anymore. The 2AZ is dead. And good riddance, I don't want an engine designed in the previous millenium.

Also, the 2AR is 2.5L. It's too big for a medium-lightweight car, seeing how they went with a 2.0 for the BRZ.

The 1NZ is their current small car workhorse, having being produced for 15 years (only Toyota can get away with this lol). Seeing how they put it in the Prius C and tacked on some EGR and stuff, it seems like they'll be using it forever :bellyroll: I do think it'll be going out soon though, their age is showing. NR/ZR families have a much more efficient design apparently. The 1NR looks a whole lot better on paper technologically, but they don't have a larger displacement one for the NA market. It's nice that they were able to include several fuel saving features and keep the service weight the same as the 1NZ. They've also got the ZR engines, but I don't think any 1.6L variants are in the US.

The thing is this, let's say the car comes in 5 years. That's 2017-2018 ish. By that time the ZR and NR families will be 10 years old, about time for replacement depending on how successful Toyota deems their design. The ZR family already has a whole bunch of engines, whereas the only "serious" NR is the 1NR-FE. For that reason I think if the new MR2 follows a Gen1/3 lightweight formula it'll either have a NR/ZR successor engine, or it'll have a newer NR that perhaps replaces the current NZ applications.

I'm hoping it's an all out minimalist lightweight design :D There's something neat about a midengined car that's cheap enough to not feel bad about doing a little wrenching on here and there, and as a fellow MR2 Spyder owner I'm sure you understand how there's something neat about having the smallest car on the road next to an Elise. However this time Toyota, kill the power steering and use that space to enlarge the frunk please, and then make it a targa top if it has to be convertible, and ditch the whole cubby arrangement for just an open parcel shelf. The way the current parcel shelf is, the trim pieces here and there take up about the same volume as there is volume for luggage!

Oh and, I don't mind a halfassed engine choice, but please if you're going through the trouble of making a 1ZZ-FED with lightened rods, why not just grab some proper forged rods for a minimal increase in cost and rev it out a little more?

Why not get both :happyanim: FR-S Daily, MR2 lightweight track monster.

wut. what's practicality?

More expensive.

Already have a dedicated racecar so both would be street and HPDE cars only. No need for that many cars ;)

Yea, dedicated lightweight MR platform=inherently more expensive, same price would mean a step down in quality/performance/etc. That's what product differentiation is all about, customers can get something a little different for a little more money.

Though I prefer that they try to keep the power down and not get too fancy when they have a bigger budget to work with. Match the current Miata while undercutting the weight. If the new Miata keeps the power levels the same while lightening up, then match the Miata.

Considering Camry and Celica motors have been used in the mr2 before, utilizing any 4 cylinder within the stable without having to make a new motor is the typical option to save on costs.

But seriously, the 2zz should be in the MKIII mr2. Nothing else.