Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB - towed at 717miles CEL severe shaking (apparently a huge issue)

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- - towed at 717miles CEL severe shaking (apparently a huge issue) (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15793)

towed at 717miles CEL severe shaking (apparently a huge issue)

http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/8329/poorbrz.png

waiting for tow atm.
the car started to shake at each red light each time more viscous.
I'll update when i find out what's up
seems to be leaking something

Update: I uploaded the Service Bulletin they're going to use for my BRZ and parts are on order

More about this issue
Unofficial - CEL/SL/Idle Issue List for FR-S/BRZ Owners
Car at dealership, decided to give them the laundry list..
First Drive - CEL - Cam Sprocket Fix
Check engine light just came on after 2k miles.
CEL and SL on -My experience so far
Cel issue
Idle issue?
First Check Engine Light and Traction control

Towing guy bent my front bumper luckily I recorded it
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bm3Y3gdxm_4&feature=share&list=UUltX9dajnc CCww6DxIV8luQ"]CEL first 717miles in BRZ limited - YouTube[/ame]

Quote:

Originally Posted by primo (Post 397335)

I received a phone call from Santa Monica Subaru on Friday, 8/17/12, informing me that my BRZ had arrived! Super excited, I signed all the dotted lines and drove away from the dealership. I live about 30 miles away and at some point while driving after showing my family the car, the check engine light and traction light came on. Started her up Saturday morning and everything seemed to be okay, but I took it to the dealer anyway just to be sure.

A diagnostic was performed and the mechanic told me that there was a problem with the ignition timing. I'm not sure if anything was done at that point to my car, but they sent me on my way and told me to come back if the lights came on again.

I drove around for about 100 miles on Saturday and at times my car just did not feel right. Shaky engine which shook the whole car, rpm fluctuations while idling, slow acceleration from first gear. But no return of the check engine light.

Well, Sunday I went for a drive around Torrance Beach and the check engine light came on. I parked my car, snapped a few pictures for memorial purposes, because I was upset and started to believe the past 2 years I spent following the production of this car, + the 5 months waiting after pre-ordering the car were all in vain.

I was able to get my car back to the dealer on Tuesday and pretty much told them I didn't want to see her until she's fixed. I felt bad for abandoning her but I had no choice. I'm no car scientist.

Yesterday I got a call from Dan, a Subaru tech at the dealer, who told me that Subaru had released a fix for this problem that my car and another BRZ that had recently rolled back in on a tow truck... belonging to another forum member, Hammer. The fix includes the addition of a cam sprocket. I looked it up on the internet but I won't claim to understand what it is exactly, only that it is supposed to fix and/or aid the engine timing. Does anyone know if this is a major fix? It doesn't sound very complicated but it's still worrisome.

I'm hoping that this fix is not some sort of trial and error experiment, but only time will tell. I'm happy at least that I went ahead and purchased the 100k warranty through my credit union.

My car was born 06/12, last 4 digits of the vin are 2739. Good luck to all the others in the same situation. (side note: when I dropped my car off on Tuesday another guy was in the process of buying the red car in the picture below. I don't know if his car will have the same problem as mine but I think it arrived the same day mine did. I didn't have the heart to tell him and rain on his happy day. Sorry dude if you're a member here.)

Pardon the narrative but I just needed to vent my situation. I rode a bike in college and borrowed a parents car for the past couple years waiting for this to be my first car. And I'm driving a crappy rental right now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hotlava86 (Post 397494)

yeah this is a huge issue. BRZ owners aren't noticing it much because there aren't as many BRZ's on the road. What is happening is, there is an Actuator in the timing setup or VVTi (variable valve timing (intelligent)) and well over 30% of the actuators made are faulty. they are failing to advance or retard the timing of the car properly to allow the car proper acceleration and cause RPM fluctuations like you were noticing. Toyota is actually rebuilding the entire top half of some customers engines because the problem is so severe, HOWEVER they are NOT informing their customers of this. I am good friends with my technician at Toyota and he said that he had done the job twice now, and that over 200 FR-S have already been repaired for the issue and about 20 of those are already showing signs or problems again....Sorry man it really sucks first year woes are always the hardest just remember warranty warranty warranty! they will get it right soon

looks like water were you running ac, could just be condensate... won't explain the hesitation though hopefully nothing major good luck

Quote:

Originally Posted by earthsscum (Post 406039)

looks like water were you running ac, could just be condensate... won't explain the hesitation though hopefully nothing major good luck

Yeah that's what I figured it was too. I didnt run ac too long i actually had it off most on the time. I turned it on for a minute or two before the engine light turned on. I took pics just in case

Umm the picture you have of the tachometer and speedometer with the check engine light on has all of the lights on meaning the picture was taken right when the car was started

This thread is loaded under the warranty section of the forums.

I know what's wrong.....it's an automatic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ngabdala (Post 406091)

Umm the picture you have of the tachometer and speedometer with the check engine light on has all of the lights on meaning the picture was taken right when the car was started

Most probably it was taken with the ignition switch/push button in the "On" position because the revs are zero

I get it. He couldn't replicate the CEL when it came time to take the photo. Me so stupid. Anyways it was most likely because he wanted us to see the ODO

Quote:

Originally Posted by ngabdala (Post 406515)

Anyways it was most likely because he wanted us to see the ODO

That's what I believe.

I'm going to update my original post. Apparently this is an issue with our cars and will result in a rebuild of the whole top end of the engine. More reports are showing up for the FR-S merely because there are more of them out there. The Parts are in back-order that's how much it's showing up.

PS: yeah the picture was meant for the ODO since the towing people needed to know it. I figured i might as well take a photo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hotlava86 (Post 397494)

you picked the right quote. If your RPM's were dipping every time you came to an idle then you sir have yet another faulty Timing actuator in your VVTi system. Really sucks seeing this happen so frequently now...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hotlava86 (Post 406660)

that's exactly what has been happening :/ 3 weeks in the shop would suck. they weren't able to look at it until tomorrow meanwhile they gave me an Outback which I hate: the brakes go in too deep, smells like cigarettes, it's huge, and, speakers suck. I only found two good points the sound fades when you turn off the car and it's very comfy

Sorry to hear it man. Lol at the TC comment, let him know whats up!

Quote:

Originally Posted by chulooz (Post 406687)

Sorry to hear it man. Lol at the TC comment, let him know whats up!

lol yeah it was a funny comment i think we all (BRZ/FR-S) would agree that our cars shouldn't be compared or mistaken as a tC

Awe... your car looks soo clean. Also, I think the bumper got damaged when it got loaded and hit that thingy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pinoyplaya (Post 406726)

Awe... your car looks soo clean. Also, I think the bumper got damaged when it got loaded and hit that thingy.

yup I have to report it. all the more reason everyone should record their cars when it's towed

Quote:

Originally Posted by gdi2290 (Post 406738)

yup I have to report it. all the more reason everyone should record their cars when it's towed

Why your car is soo clean... wtf did you do to it lol

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hotlava86 (Post 406660)

Does this happen only to manual transmission or even automatics? Mine is manual, ~680 miles. It happened many times but i never got a CEL. I learned how to prevent it by doing slight engine brake when coming to full stop. BTW my vin ends 23xx. Pre 100 miles the engine was really shaky under 2k rpm. Post 100 miles it improved a lot, that i could glide thru traffic jams b/w 2nd and 3rd @1500 rpm like driving an automatic.

I asked the kid tech at subaru who went for brz training. He said the idle issue is normal and behaves that way to lower emission blah blah. If they give me a Kia for loaner when i get my car repaired for this issue, im gonna shove it their a##.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pinoyplaya (Post 406748)

Why your car is soo clean... wtf did you do to it lol

lol well i just bought it not too long ago the car definitely grabs a lot of attention I blame the World Rally Blue

http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/681/riceguy.png
the guy next to me joking said "wanna race" when he seen my car. I told him I just bought it and I have a CEL then he was talking about how he had his car for 16 years no problem while I only had mine for 5-6 days. what's up with that

Good luck dude..... This is why its handy to have tow hooks..... I would have spat the dummy if my lip touched, the dude should have had wooden boards to lay down so the angle was not so steep but im sure at the time this was the least of your worries....

Quote:

Originally Posted by FT-86GOD (Post 406815)

it didn't accure to me until after I seen it happen. it was a little funny when we got to the dealership he was extra conscious and followed protocol correctly since he knew he fk'd up. I plan on calling up a lot of people tomorrow, so there is no point yelling at him when I can get his Boss to do it for me

well this is depressing, my first new car in 14 years and there's an issue with vvti and the engine. i hope i'm exempt.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperDave (Post 406857)

well this is depressing, my first new car in 14 years and there's an issue with vvti and the engine. i hope i'm exempt.

after I realize it wasn't an isolated incident I felt the same way
just make sure you grab that extended warranty :/

i have felt my car shake pretty violently when i slow to a stop at times, i thought it was just a quirk of a boxer engine, but now i know better. thanks for the heads up.

good luck with everything.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gdi2290 (Post 406718)

lol yeah it was a funny comment i think we all (BRZ/FR-S) would agree that our cars shouldn't be compared or mistaken as a tC

You're right, tC's weren't throwing CEL's out the gate. :bonk:

Seriously though that really sucks you're going through this, and that there isn't even a bulletin or recall yet for this issue? I'm definitely holding off on buying this car now. I hope everything works out for you though.

Makes me glad that my car is coming with a lifetime powertrain warranty. It is a $100 deductible after the factory 60,000 but that is ok with me. Although I am pretty sure I will end up voiding it with mods.

Quote:

Originally Posted by avholic (Post 406756)

it happens to all FRS/BRZ regardless of transmission

Quote:

Originally Posted by gdi2290 (Post 406871)

just make sure you grab that extended warranty :/

What good is that going to do, if you are under 30K/3yo anyway?

Its a manufacture warranty case and claim, if they have an official fix.

Glad to see it's at least a known issue and not something they have no idea how to fix. I think many of us knew what we were getting into with first model year purchases, but it still sucks when stuff like this comes up.

I've never had a vehicle towed before, but can't he bend rotors or brake lines clamping the tires like that?

Is that how they normally do it? I use tie down straps similar to that every day and you can put some serious force down with those bad boys.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TOMIMOTO (Post 408612)

I was able to drive it today the brakes did feel a little weird that might of been me forgetting how firm it is (the loaner car had very mushy brakes) they couldn't find anything wrong with my car, so I picked it up went around the block then back because the CEL came up. Needless to say they gave me a loaner car again and will look further into it. I'll definitely have them double check I wouldn't want to have any brake failures just because Sunnyvale Towing

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oriental Life (Post 408460)

What good is that going to do, if you are under 30K/3yo anyway?

Its a manufacture warranty case and claim, if they have an official fix.

i think because this kind of problem can be repetitive, who know if it doesn't act up every 25k miles. For a lot of folks, 30k miles only means a year of driving. If you have extended warranty to 80k miles you have a much much better chance to claim warranty a few times until it's fixed correctly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gdi2290 (Post 408701)

Dude, I have the same issue like everyone else in the "Warranty section". Bro, I would make sure they can recreate the codes and fix it properly. You are lucky to drive it for 700+miles. I got my car at 8 miles and the CEL and SL came on at 25mile! Had the car for one freaking day and now it is at the dealership. :mad0259:

Quote:

Originally Posted by bazi (Post 408729)

ouch, 8 miles. that's insane I remember people talking about the first generation cars and some said since it's Subaru it should be fine... right.

our engines were a combination of two technologies Toyota+Subaru so something was bound to show up :/ sucks that we were the ones affected

Look at it this way, this doesn't necessarily point to a bad design, just bad parts. A bad design would result in every car being affected. Recalls/TSBs can affect any number of cars or other products, even those that have been in production for years. Stay optimistic!

Quote:

Originally Posted by serith (Post 407058)

... and that there isn't even a bulletin or recall yet for this issue?

It's Subaru Service Bulletin 02-132-12. I got it off this forum and saved it on my smartphone just in case.

Google "tsb 02-132-12" and it leads right back to ft86club.com and to techinfo.subaru.com/static/whatsNew.html with link to PDF (if you have access to their site):

02-132-12 - Technical Service Bulletin - DTCs Relating to the AVCS (Active Valve Control System) - Aug 21, 2012 - [View PDF]

Quote:

Originally Posted by avholic (Post 409066)

wow that sucks for that guy he had to claim his car a lemon I don't blame him for moving to a 370z with all problems he has had :/

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hotlava86 (Post 408370)

it happens to all FRS/BRZ regardless of transmission

False, not all....mine is at 4,000+ miles, no CEL...Dave-ROR's is at 8,000+ miles no CEL...matter of fact we've haven't had 1 BRZ or Impreza in for this concern...and we sell quite a few...

And it's not a top engine rebuild, it involves the Oil Control Valves (for the VVT), the Exhaust Cam Sprocket and the ECM. In some cases just the OCV's need to be replaced, in others only the Cam sprockets, and in a few, all of the parts need to be replaced.

It can affect Impreza's with the FB20 and all models with the FA20.
The TSB only applies if you have had a CEL.