FA24D (new GR86) into FRS GEN 1
 

I’ve seen some older threads…people converting to talking about KSWAPS etc.

Keeping it strictly about the FA24D, what’s needed?

New ECU? Sensors?
1st Gen Transmission will work?

Looks like the exhaust mounting points are the same so I can keep my PTuning headers 💪


No one bring up Kswap bullshit. If I wanted a Honda I’d buy a Honda.

I want more power in the first Gen and this is the answer (hopefully).
Boost comes later but the goal is FA24D swap.


What’s the requirements?

🙏

There is a thread right below yours for this https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=147462

Also, the answer is that no one knows what is required for the motor yet. First gen transmission will work.

That one’s talking about building one out using an FA20. I guess that’s helpful but I just wanna know if the mounting points are the same and It’s an ECU issue/sensor issue mainly.

Saw on eBay the motor and trans were $7500.

Seems like a rip off. Hopefully I can get my hands on one and figure it out.

Won’t work. Get a K24 and do a kswap.

If you want an fa24 get a gr86...

Just wait for a few years

From what I’ve researched doing the fa24 long block swap is very similar to converting from 13 to a 17 engine. The transmission and everything works just fine, but it’s the small changes that are the problem. For example the trigger wheel, camshaft position sensors, etc. they are slightly different to the point where it makes the swap very tedious and annoying. If you got the fully assembled long block with appropriate harness and ecu there’s a good chance it should be no problem, but nothing is concrete yet.

Tbh I was very interested in the fa24 swap until I realized that there are just too many unknowns to make it worth it at this point. Unless your racing in a class which having a fa24 is legal but a k24 or FI isn’t then honestly just stick to the fa20 for now. With time this swap will become more feasible.

You're wasting you're own time and money for 20-30 more horsepower that still doesn't have the internals (rods) to support a full tilt turbo or supercharger upgrade. Meanwhile, I'm over here with an HKS supercharger feeling pretty good.

The reason someone might want to do a swap would be because the FA24 has more potential for high horsepower due to the extra displacement that would be more difficult with the FA20, because the FA24 will have more turbo response, because the FA24 has more reliability at a given horsepower, because of better heat management for a given horsepower, or because it may be cheaper.

I say it may be cheaper because to get the predicted reliability for a given horsepower, the FA20 might require internal upgrades, where the FA24 might be fine from the factory. For instance, the 350whp/275wtq seems to be about the limit for the FA20, so for many people, even if they don't want more power, they may try to stay significantly below that, or they may do a built engine, which isn't disable or cheap, respectively. The FA24 due to the extra displacement will make 350whp with less boost, and it is starting with significantly beefier Pistons and rods, so the reliability factor in theory should be much higher.

If the swap was reasonable then I would have considered it over the K24.

https://i.postimg.cc/s22Ksv5L/001.png
https://i.postimg.cc/Dyvc7PxL/002.jpg

https://www.facebook.com/GARAGE86MALAYSIA/

Here you go!

FA24 FB25 pistons
 

Do you know if the FA20 and FA24 pistons use the same pin diameter and pin height? That FA24 piston looks a lot like a FB25 piston. I wonder if its the same? Both 94mm...

I'm interested in fitting new sleeves to an FA20 to run the 94mm pistons

Possible candidate
 

I think this is an FB25D piston. It's the only picture I've been able to find.

I have no idea. Check the part numbers

It has been done in 2022 and does work.

Swapping a Honda K24 into the 86 has been nothing but a disaster chasing problem after problem and personally witnessing about a dozen blow up in S2000's, NB Miatas and 86's since last year.

Also the FA motors were never designed to withstand forced induction applications. These are free revving NA motors designed with light weight internals.

There is a FA24 short block swap running in MN. Car is using FA20 heads and ECU. Made almost identical HP to a stock GR86 on the same dyno.

I believe the car was on track this weekend too.

Still i m not understanding how doable is this swap, fa24 short block into restyling fa20 with fa20 heads?
Did someone here figure out what s really needed?

Yes - I am sure he wants to do more testing before posting it all up. But, its a shop in MN.

would be nice to have some details about how to make it work(:

RSMotors, if you want to creep their FB

My concerns would be valve clearance. Are the valves the same diameter and in the same position and angle on both motors? The piston crowns are different between the two motors. I could imagine the valves being larger and maybe further apart on the FA24.

Besides that, the larger bore sleeve might partially block the coolant jackets on the FA20 heads.

pistons hit the heads, yea but i dont what they did to fix that

I came across some comments by Ronnie the other day about it, he said that you just gotta get creative and that he used FA20 heads. Can't find them now that I'm looking though.

The crank position sensor was asked about on their post but they were a big cagey and just said "they made it work". but it was done with a stock 2013 ECU so thats hopeful. We just have to figure out what they did.

That's why I didn't wanna say who it was, I'm guessing he is going to put something more formal together eventually on the process. But have seen pictures of them doing testing on clearances/etc for a while.

Probably just stuck the 13' sensor on with a modified mount with the 13' reluctor wheel.

I believe RS has for sure 3 cars running with FA24 swaps, and another shop(ASM) did one in WI.

I believe one of the FA24 cars will be at Gridlife this weekend running in club TR

Just remembered I posted this a while ago. Who’s got a guide? I want to pull the trigger on buying a GR86 engine. 😊

Same here - the price on used FA24s seem to have cooled off some and I'm interested in swapping to my '14.

I found this guide on NASIOC. It's specific to the FA24DIT, but there is useful information there.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...qrl9R-vJA/edit

I'm following this outfit in Japan. There are some more clues there.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...qrl9R-vJA/edit

Mostly I am looking for information on the FA24 cam sensors, crank position sensor, injectors, and a few other sensors (temp, pressure, etc.) and interfacing them to the FA20 ECU.

My understanding is it is the same strategy as the 17'+ 1st gens for the cam and crank signals. It stands to reason you may be able to swap the cam trigger wheels and crank reluctor wheel and the appropriate sensors from the older FA20 to the FA24 but nobody has confirmed.

Just did a quick search, and there are some used FA24 complete motors out there for sale in the $6-7K USD range. While they still ain't cheap, they're getting to be in the range of E.G. buying an Edelbrock supercharger, though adapting the wiring harness, etc. to connect to the FA20 ECU will certainly run more labour costs than the supercharger install.

You can also apparently order a new, complete long block now for around $8,600 USD.

I still think this will be the way I'll go eventually if I don't just call it a day after my headers and tune in a few months and spend those funds on track time instead. ;)

So explain this to me like I’m an idiot. You’re saying the FA24 long block is what’s needed? Short block I actually replaced recently on my 14 FRS as I had a leaky cylinder 3 causing stalling at red lights and major idle issues. Long block is untouched from the repair.

If you bought just a long block, there would be a LOT of other little bits and pieces that would either need to be purchased or adapted from the FA20. Even if all you want to do is a "block swap" (I.E. keeping the FA20 intake manifold, etc.), buying a complete motor to work from is almost certainly going to be way easier.

I just mentioned the availability of the long block because they weren't available when folks were first talking about this swap, and for comparison with the price of used complete motors. ;)

EDIT: and for those who aren't clear, a long block is generally just an assembled block and heads and usually doesn't include any of the intake / exhaust manifolds or ancillary bits and pieces, sensors, etc.

I talked to a shop this weekend who’s already done this swap. They’ll do a swap, complete with a new FA-24 long block, for around $7k. This assumes your car is in good working condition, as they use existing parts from your car. If it wasn’t so far away (the shop is in WI and I’m in VA) I’d probably already have my car there.

Is this ASM? Sounds pretty reasonable to me.

That's without the block, right?

Yep!

With! Here's the email noting this:

"Current total price is about $7k for a full fa24 swap. That’s including a new OEM FA24 block. That price also is assuming your old engine is in running condition as we have to reuse many of the original parts."

If I was a little closer I'd already dropped my car off. They're booking 4-5 weeks out and turn time is 1-2 weeks.

Wow. Impressive. You'll probably need FA24 headers though, right? Or at least not the stock FA20 ones?

A good FI kit with install & tune will set you back nearly as much. More power, yes, but nowhere near the same reliability.

FA24 is 228HP. It's not a rocket by any stretch. People will be adding FI to these too if they want any real power.

A header tune on the FA20 will almost get you to the FA24. I haven't driven one but I expect the GR86 to be a lot of new car hype. Let's see what happens when the dust settles.

MY car is SlOw... lol

I’m already rocking a turbo kit so hopefully it’ll bolt up. My car has 130k miles with almost all of them turbo’d so it’s getting a little tired. I’m just looking at options for a new engine in the not too distant future.