The 0W-20 Oil Change Hustle & DIY vs carfax documentation
 

I was contemplating the dilemma of changing my oil vs having it serviced for carfax documentation. I don't trust service places or dealerships. I don't want the dealership touching my car ever again.

Then there's the pressure to use watery thin 0W-20, knowing that it's a bad choice for my use case. I RTFMed the issue:


From 2022 BRZ Owners Manual

p 381
In choosing an oil, you want the proper quality and viscosity, as well as one that will enhance fuel economy. Oils of lower viscosity provide better fuel economy. However, in hot weather, oil of higher viscosity is required to properly lubricate the engine. The following table lists the recommended viscosities and applicable temperatures.

p. 382
Specifications
 When adding oil, different brands may be used together as long as they are the same API classification and SAE viscosity
as those recommended by SUBARU.

0W-20 synthetic oil is the required oil for optimum engine performance and protection. Conventional oil may be used if synthetic oil is unavailable.

*: If 0W-20 synthetic oil is not available, 5W-30 conventional oil may be used if you need to add oil.
However, you should change to 0W-20 synthetic oil at the next oil change.
--

This is very ambiguous legal speak to pressure the use of 0W-20. 0W-20 is a cold climate oil.

Notice the use of the words "required" and "should." It doesn't say "0W-20 synthetic oil is the required oil-PERIOD. It says "...required oil for optimum engine performance and protection." i.e. gas mileage and cold winter protection.

On page 381: "However, in hot weather, oil of higher viscosity is required to properly lubricate the engine. The following table lists the recommended viscosities and applicable temperatures." Notice, in the table, the only other viscosity mentioned is conventional 5W-30. BUT only if you are adding oil, not changing it; then "should" go back to 0W-20 at next oil change. It then shows a temperature graph only applicable to 0W-20.

The phrase "required oil for optimum engine performance and protection" provides a loophole where the higher viscosity stated (5W-30) may be used, although less than "optimum."

So what I deduce from the ambiguous legal speak in the owners manual is this. I can use 5W-30 if I want to, all year long; since I don't live in the Northern US, Canada, or the North Pole. HA!

I imagine the watery thin oil reduces engine life increasing vehicle sales and service.

I gravitate toward higher viscosities.

I suppose it's a bit of a gamble. If engine warranty work is needed, they may refuse. However the chance of engine failure is small, considering the care in which I take of my vehicles. My feeling is that the 5W-30 will result in longer engine life.

This was my conclusion as well, and echos the same from the 1st gen cars.

Anecdotal data: Used oil analysis on my 2013 BRZ showed twice the Aluminum and Iron wear on the Toyota 0W-20 than on Castrol 0W-30. Double.

I put some Castrol 0W-20 at around 700 miles because I found it cheap and I'll change it again at 5k. Something got a little louder in the engine for sure, even the Mrs could tell. Next oil change will be with Castrol 0W-30.

The Castrol 0W-30 European formula is starting to get hard to find around here, where do you get it usually?

Or you just use good quality 0W-20 and not junk?

Thinner oil is used in modern engines for good reason, and its not for "winter/cold" conditions.

I had some stock left from a little while ago, I think I found it at my local Walmart. I'd have to check again, I see Amazon is out.

To address the other point on the thread, I don't plan to sell the BRZ any time soon, but I could see how a documented history could be valuable to the next owner. Having said that, I just sold 3 cars to Vroom and Carvana, and not a single time they asked about service history. They offered more than Carmax too, even enough to offset the tax benefits of trading in.

Carfax is only useful if you're trying to resell your car private party. Most reputable dealers already pay for the report out of their own corporate accounts.

Or just run UOA regularly and it's 100000x better than any Carfax report:

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39983

I always run 0w20 in the winter, and 0w30 in the summer. Sometimes add a quart of 5w30 though if its all I have. Choice of oil viscosity on these cars is definitely not negligible, I think I get better gas mileage on 0w20, but the car seems to run better in the summertime if I go up a grade. I agree 0w30 was hard to find recently though you can still order it through Walmart's website.

Also on the choice to DIY your oil yourself and skip official documentation, its a great choice because you'll want to change your oil often. Be sure to check out a fumoto oil drain valve.

The Toyota 0W-20 is a really good oil according to the oil nerds at BITOG. Definitely not junk oil. Very complete additive package and excellent viscosity over temps and oil life.

I'll use Castrol 5W-30 after break-in and beyond.


Yeah reasons like turnover, sales, and service.

When I was considering buying used, carfax reports heavily influenced my interest; so it makes a difference when time to sell, from my perspective. I just couldn't get past the Youtube influencers promoting heavy drivetrain abuse. Back in the day, we didn't abuse our performance cars like they do today. I wouldn't touch a used one with a 10 ft pole.

UOA huh? hmmmm, sounds expensive just to prove you maintained a car. Carfax type reports are good for the online browsers, and I think, does make a difference. And carfax service history is free on a few main listing sites, and Carvana. But I don't think I'll bother worrying about it, unless the 23 has a cubby and a better placed cupholder.:sigh:

I think you're missing the point on the UOA part.

UOA is to prove you have an engine that matches what you claim it has. I only did it every oil change to maximize my oil intervals (and also because no one else was doing it). It is not necessary for a normal car that sees track use, unless you are trying to get more out of your oil or if you are watching how much wear your engine is seeing.

Carfax is great for someone wanting to buy a car that has no documentation with it whatsoever at the time of sale.

If you do your own oil changes, keep track of it, and log all of the regular work, that's all you can do.

Again, Carfax is only relevant if you are wanting to resell the car to private party after however long you own the car. If this is not a part of your consideration to buy the car now, then it is a moot point.

Do your own oil changes and document it, including receipts for oil and filters.

This is simple.

carfax only works if they choose to host the records.

this was 2013. but there's no direct indication that carfax has improved anymore since.
https://abcnews.go.com/Business/trus...8#.UbOr4_nrxyU


i learned that the hard way. the 2001 eclipse that i spent months looking for, and then spent even more time and money making sure that the carfax was clean (it was). later, i took it to a body shop for other work to be done, and they pointed out all sorts of damage that the car had been rear-ended at some point before my ownership. fortunately, it was properly repaired, and the signs of the repair they found were minimal, so i lucked out of anything serious. but it was a lesson for me to trust carfax's data just as much as one would trust the slicked-back hair, gold-chain-wearing, smiling used car salesmen...


and then some people apparently fake records.
https://www.carbibles.com/not-taking...cost-me-10000/

so the best answer is to do one's own due diligence when buying. putting trust in companies with limited liabilities to that data, or trusting the previous owner to say what was done are both recipes for disaster.

Before any warranty decline, they need to prove it. Otherwise throw the Magnuson act. I use Amsoil 5w 30 since 2013, not a single problem engine wise. Probably i will add Forrester oem oil cooler before summer just for peace mind

I used an IAG block for my rebuild and they and my very talented FA20 guru engine builder had me use Torco 0-20. Car is amazing.

I just took a bunch of pictures, the dates are in the EXIF metadata of the JPEGs.

I have a stack of oil filter box-tops with the odo reading and service date written on them.

should just save the box. and put the old oil filters in the box.

just imagine handing the new owner crates of the boxes of old parts with mileages on them... "see? it's all documented!"

Tracked first gen with over 90K miles, mostly on 0-20. UOA is clean. Most of the oil change intervals where at manual recommended 7500. Only in the last 18 months had it been pulled from DD duty.

Some of you guys overthink wayyyy too much.

I've been hearing good things about Torco lately.

Couple Questions:
1. When you did your oil change, was there a crush washer or did you have to scrape off a "sealant" that Subaru used at the factory?

2. Regarding oil, what was the recommendation on the original FA20 for the guys with gen1 experience?

Subaru I believe uses Idemitsu as their OEM for oil. Not sure about Toyota. Curious about what's in the factory fill vs. what Toyota and Subaru will each use moving forward.

I personally wouldn't follow the owners manual and would change the oil far more frequently before worrying too much about about oil brand. Chances are, we drive harder than the typical Ascent or Outback driver.

Any thoughts on Pennzoil? It was my go to on previous Subaru platforms, cheap, plentiful (Amazon/Walmart). I would personally go with Castrol or Pennzoil whichever is better/cheaper and change the oil at 1/2 the suggested interval.

Pennzoil 5W-30 full synthetic is good stuff from what I've read, I ran it on a bunch of my turbo trucks and Explorer ST (twin turbo 3.0). Then again, I think most of the modern synthetic oils are excellent and like NoHaveMSG mentioned, we tend to overthink it. Even the Amazon branded oil seems to be pretty great; have you seen Project Farm's oil testing videos?

The one oil I found recently that has a huge following is Shell's Rotella T6 Diesel Oil, lots of people claiming that's all they use on their trucks/cars and even bikes due to the additive package they use.

There is no sealant on the drain bolt, just a crush washer.

There is no reason to shorten the intervals unless you are particularly hard on the car. If you really are concerned or want to know, get a used oil analysis done periodically, they are like 20 bucks. Most UOA's on cars that are even tracked regularly come back with the factory service interval being fine. Some guys change it more often, which is fine, just not always that necessary.

I have been running 300V in my car but am thinking about making the switch to Pennzoil. A lot of what I hear about it is that it is great.

For good reason. The SR 5r is as good as it gets and the price reflects that.

This^

To document it you can take it a step further and take a picture of the receipt beside the odometer to show the mileage. This will give you time stamped documentation.

1) https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54142
2) change as you need... only variation from the factory interval should be based on your oil itself, which is why I kept doing UOA on it

you can ignore factory recommended intervals all you want but unless you have proof (via a Used Oil Analysis) then it's really just throwing money away. Oil change intervals should be dictated based on need, and usually the need is based on the additives being consumed in the oil.

Oil brand is personal choice. Unless you're trying to get 10/10ths out of the car every day, you don't need anything more than the standard synthetic 0W-20...


Most extended warranty fine print requires a dated receipt within 30 days of the recorded service, if you are doing it yourself. This also means you can't stockpile oil filters or even oil in advance.

Yes. For the same reason it would be a bad idea to hold up the same receipt for each change! If you have reached a point in a dispute where you need proof you better make sure you have been honest and up front or it will go badly for you.

I always film the mileage, the VIN on the door frame, the new filter and the oil jug. Never had a problem with dealers.

I just do the maintenance and record what I did when. I only keep receipts for work someone else did.

If I'm selling a car, they either believe me or they can move on. Never had a warranty issue where it mattered.

I don't think many actually do have problems with dealers on this. But when they do they make sure everybody knows it!

The official response is "any oil with the SAE certification on the label is the same quality as any other oil."

The personal response is that I feel better paying for something more name brand than the generic Walmart oil.

Tldr: oil's oil, you do you.

Can anyone link me to the mammoth oil analysis thread for first gen cars that I'm sure must exist, but I can't seem to find? Want to see how different oils held up in first gen 2.0.

There is a good one on NASIOC for the FA20DIT. I settled on Mobil 1 ESP 5W30 for my WRX. The emissions systems protection additive package helps mitigate DI carbon fouling (my top concern) and it has the happy bonus of coming in at the very top end of 5W30 viscosity range when new. Checked it at 1200mi after the engine did it's initial food-processing of the oil molecules, then 5000mi and somehow stayed in 5W30 viscosity range despite boxer-chop and fuel dilution. The regular M1 5W30 I ran after first oil change was water by 5000mi.

I'm thinking to go ESP 0W20, analyze the oil and maybe go to three parts 0W20/two parts 0W30 if viscosity drops too low by 5000mi.

It's so they can meet their gas mileage goals.

Add a dated newspaper to the vid and you're bulletproof?

You are thinking way too much into this.
1) Most people do not drive their cars past the warranty period (at least those that buy brand new cars)

2) ICE's have become increasingly efficient and tolerances between metal parts have been decreased and drastically changed from even 30 years ago

3) Engineers probably know the tolerances of oil films than some random person online

4) If you are DD your car why is thin oil and issue and are you letting it heat up properly before beating on it? Are you driving it and not letting it idle all the time? Both of things thing increase engine wear

5) Use a high quality oil and change every 3K miles and you shouldn't have issues I personally use LiquiMoly oils in all my cars

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKdhgKUZhPA

I agree with everything you said except the 3k change interval.

Change interval should be dictated by the amount of additives left in the oil. Otherwise, an arbitrary 3k interval is just throwing money away... and over the course of 60k of driving you're throwing away 10 oil changes.

A Subaru tech on youtube (cant remember his name) said 3K is perfectly fine and potentially reduces the amount of oil that goes through the PCV system/ reduces the amount of burnt oil. In my other cars (all 90's European cars) I change at 3K miles because they 1. Burn 1qt of oil ever ~2K miles 2. Are not known to be the best when you run them low on oil, or keep dirty oil in them. Id rather waste some money on oil and play it safe than save a few bucks and end up with engine failure down the road. If these cars were Camrys sure id run them 7-10K per oil change but they aren't so I play it safe.

3k for today's fully synthetic oil in an engine like ours is absolutely ludicrous (assuming you don't track/flog it all of those miles). All of the evidence I have seen (i.e. oil analysis data) is that you are perfectly fine at 10k, particularly with a daily driver like mine that does 20-25k a year of almost entirely highway miles.

Of course, it's your time and money - feel free to do with it as you please.

If you want to trust a YouTube mechanic vs. a decade of UOA data here go right ahead :iono:

Before oil cooler I averaged about 3500 miles before I could no longer bear hearing the engine clatter from the slightly used oil. UOA confirmed that I was wasting money.

After cooler it's been smooth right through the 7500-mile change interval. UOA says I'm still wasting money but I sleep better.

I didn't burn any oil worth noting, about the worst was like 1/2 quarts over 8k+ miles.

I also did UOA and probably would have extended my oil change intervals up to 10k had I not been actively tracking the car every month.

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39983