0W-16 Oil
 

Has anyone with forced induction tried this new 0W-16 oil developed specifically for boosted, direct injected engines in any of their cars yet?

I'm suspecting it may not work quite right with the VVT system in the FA20/4U-GSE and may cause some codes to start appearing concerning the cam timings.

Why would anyone ever dream of going DOWN in oil weight from the already light weight 0W20?

That wonderful cold start protection! :drool::lol:

Honda is beginning to recommend it for their turbocharged engines to combat the oil dilution problems they have been having.

I asked Bubba about 0W-16 weight oil and he says you might as well put kerosene in the crankcase. :iono:

Might not be a bad idea of those of us seeing winter conditions. Those -20 cold starts.

I imagine those engines are specifically engineered to run 0W-16. The FA20 isn't. Using thinner oil than what is recommended by the manufacturer is almost universally a bad idea.

I doubt 4 points would make a difference in a cold start. Not worth the trade-off with risk, since pressure is really important on cold starts where everything is drying out

They are both 0 it would make zero difference in cold start......

Hold on a sec. Did I read you correctly? Honda are recommending 0-16 to COMBAT oil dilution? So their thinking is adding gasoline to a 0-16 will transform it into a 0-20?

Manufactures want thin oil for better fuel economy. That's all.

I went 5w30 when I added forced induction because all Subaru engines that are forced induction come with 5w30.

If I was tracking the car then I would consider an oil cooler and a heavier grade oil. The GT86Cup manual has the oil listed as ELF HTX 825 10W60. There is an oil cooler option. This is for "stock" cars, so no forced induction, which means less heat and less forces pushing down on those bearings.

https://racing.tgr-europe.com/wp-con...anual_EN-1.pdf

Seems like an oxymoron to go thinner to combat dilution.
Is their reasoning that it’s already as thin as gasoline, so adding more of the same can’t hurt?

To make myself more clear, though I was mostly joking, it does make a difference. 0W-20 will have a lower viscosity than a 0W-40 oil at startup. In the case of 0W-16 vs 0W-20, the difference is probably quite insignificant to care about, which is why I intended it to be a joke.

As far as I understand, 0w-40 will still have lower viscosity at startup than 5w-30? I wonder why most people do 5w-30 and 0w-40 is rarely mentioned.

Using a viscosity calculator and punching in the specs for Mobil1 5W-30 and 0W-40 shows they cross over around 0 degrees C. Basically, 0W-40 is going to be thicker at any temperature above freezing.

So for cold starts above freezing temperatures 5w-30 is in fact better. Good to know, thanks!

No, typically 5W-30 falls in between the viscosity levels of 0W-20 and 0W-40 for startup and operating temperatures. Oil brands have different viscosity ratings as well, so it really depends. For some brands, like AMSOIL, even 10W-30 has a lower viscosity than 0W-40. But there is also the additional factor of how "cold" the cold start is. With a better viscosity index, the 0W-40 will have a lower viscosity at extremely cold temperatures well below 32F (at least in the case of AMSOIL). It's a very complicated subject honestly, which is why you never stop hearing about it.

It's really not all that complicated if you just say, "The number preceding the W only factors in approaching and below freezing."

But the thing is, that's not exactly the case at all. For many oils, depending on the second number, a 5W can have SIGNIFICANTLY lower viscosity than a 0W even at or well below freezing temperatures. Unless I am misunderstanding what point you're trying to make with that statement?

To be sure, viscosity classifications refer to ranges so there are thin 0Ws and thicker 0Ws. Out of curiosity, do you have any empirical data to support this statement?

Just going to stick to the same example as I used earlier with AMSOIL. Though this applies to pretty much all other brands that I have looked into.
https://amsoilcontent.com/ams/lit/da...tins/g2880.pdf

Kinematic viscosity @ 40C is rated at 47.1cSt for 0W-20 and 84.6cSt for 0W-40. Granted this is a fairly toasty temperature to be considered a startup temperature, but there is no magic that occurs in the lower temperatures that changes the viscosity drastically in the other favor. And again, to be clear, by lower temperatures I am referring to near freezing. Somewhere far below that is another topic and not one I am fully knowledgeable on, though I have read some interesting research on it in the past.

So to be more specific, it’s the ILSAC GF-6 oil that I was referring to in my original post.
https://www.pennzoil.com/en_us/educa...lsac-gf-6.html

It’s still a no from me dawg.

Looks like it’s not just 0W-16, they also have a 0W-20 version of it. It looks promising. When I finalize my forced induction, I’m going to give it a try. I suppose it wouldn’t hurt to change over to it beforehand.

talk to your tuner about it. many here that are FI step to 5w-30 on the tuners recommendations.

I won't even run 0w-20 on my NA motor, but you do you.

Curious, what oil are you using and why?

Mobil1 0w-40 FS because it offers great protection at higher temperatures, due to maintained oil pressure, and has a higher thermal capacity than 0w-20. It continually tests as one of the best oils on the market.

I'll keep that in mind when I talk to my tuner this Thursday. Thanks for the input.

I think the simple idea is that 0W-16 shouldn't hurt anything, and would by theory provide good engine protection in comparison to other oils. When it comes to this car though, oil temperature is our biggest haunt and that can result in a poor oil pressure. So as most have said, especially in forced induction situations, you are absolutely guaranteed to get into higher oil temps if you choose to push the car. In the case of 0W-16, it will easily result in far lower than recommended oil pressures throughout much of the higher RPM range. So pretty much no matter how golden this oil is, it would be a risk in your case. Unless you're riding around at 190-200F at peak oil temp, this oil will only do more harm. Too lazy to link, but there are a couple of threads with data analysis on this forum with various oil weights that show how poor oil pressures can get with 0W-20 in higher oil temperatures.

So my tuner said he recommends 5W-40, but that he also wasn't AWARE OF the new GF-6 ratings that are going to be superceding (and be backwards compatible with) the existing GF-5 rated oils. He is informed now.

If you're running ANY particular WEIGHT of oil that happens to be GF-5 RATED, there may soon be a GF-6 rated oil in that same weight. You may want to get more information on this to see if your engine may benefit from the extra protection that it will provide. I believe that it will.

These new GF-6 rated oils promise superior protection over existing GF-5 rated oils.

It can't hurt to at least learn about it, right?

Do we suffer from LSPI due to a downsized turbo?

Seeing how none of our cars came with turbos from the factory, the manufacturer isn’t going to investigate that problem, so there will be no “official” data to look into. And even if you personally look into it, you more than likely won’t find that information in any organized manner due to the fact that the factory is not involved in gathering it. I’m certain SOMEBODY out there has more than likely installed a small turbo into their car.

But, if there is a better grade of oil available in the weight that you use, wouldn’t you want to at least investigate whether your engine would be better protected using it? This new oil is specifically designed for direct injected and boosted engines. It’s designed to replace a grade of oil that has been shown to have flaws in protecting these types of engines.

I would be willing to bet that every turbocharged, direct injected car that is released after GF-6 becomes widely available will require the use of this GF-6 grade.

Do YOU suffer from LSPI? The term "better" is completely subjective? Better at what? Mitigating a problem you don't have?

My engine is not YET boosted, but soon will be. So to honestly answer your question, no. But low speed preignition is not the ONLY issue that the GF-6 rated oils have been formulated to address. See the chart below.

All engines suffer from wear throughout the duration of their usable life, which IS the "....problem [that I do] have", and engine oil is the only protection from excessive forms of it. I am of the opinion that the best quality oil that I can get should be running through any high performance engine such as the FA20/4U-GSE. And it's even more important when it's boosted. If this were an economy engine such as is in my non-vvt V6 Solara, I would not bother with the highest quality oil I can find as it would make absolutely no improvements to the operability or reliability of that engine.

I'm perfectly willing to try new technologies as long as they are proven to work. The new GF-6 formulation definitely won't be WORSE than the existing GF-5 at protecting engines. Otherwise, why would millions of dollars be spent on the research and development?

But if you're happy with the oil you're currently running, keep running it. Nobody's going to force you to do something you don't want to do.

So, you're concerned with wear, yet started a thread about going DOWN in oil weight?
I am confuse.

Read post # 26, where I realized that the new grade is also being released in higher weights.

Asking questions on newly released products is part of my research, hence post #1 on the subject.

Which higher weights? 20? Read my post where I don't run 20 in even my stock motor, in the interest of actual protection.

I've read your post. Taking the liberty to search for you, and although I haven't been able to check EVERY oil manufactuter, of the ones that I did, I could not find your preferred weight in a GF-6 grade. The closest that I could find to your flavor was 0W-30. Sorry.

It really doesn't matter. In a year, maybe two you won't find much of anything other than GF-6 on shelves anywhere.

GF-5 won't break your engine. GF-6 isn't an internal combustion fountain of youth, but I'll bet it won't break anything either.

Edit: but for Pete's sake, don't use 0w-16.