brz vs gt86?
 

Is there any real difference between the two besides dealing with a subaru vs a toyota dealership? would be a new 2019 or 2020.

Not really. Only difference I can think is Subaru have PP option vs Toyota don't. Toyota only have Brembo in TRD86.

If Brembo wasn’t something you care then you’re literally choosing for cosmetic things. Which front you like more.

The two can offer slightly different packages. Brz usually can be had with brembos and different (not sure if forged) wheels. The 86 can come with lowering springs and a trd catback/axleback exhaust. I think tires are different too. Fog lights and things like that are a consideration too. Sorry to be vague, but depending on your level of how much you care, you can look into what springs and dampers come on the package your looking at etc

Do your friends drive Toyota or Subaru.

cool thanks. yea looking around doesnt seem like there's really much functional difference. love the hakone color but not so much the fangs, and it seems like subaru's have a bit better deals. not planning on modding or anything, just for casual fun driving around some local backwoods. hoping there will be really good deals once the refresh arrives.

Depending on your region there may be a pretty significant price difference, in Canada, you are paying way more for a stock 86 GT trim as it does not come with brembos or sach dampers and costs more than a BRZ ts.

I believe in the states the pricing is pretty close as the 86 GT + trd handling package will bring the specs pretty close to the ts along with the price.

If price is similar it's basically aesthetics of the front bumper and that emblem you want on your car. Personally i wished the toyota kept the FRS front as I believe it looked the best compared to the refresh and the BRZ.

There may also be a slight advantage going with subaru if you were to ever need engine servicing as the dealership mechanics at subaru are way more familiar with boxer engines vs Toyota mechanics since the 86 is the only boxer engine car in Toyota's lineup and not a high volume seller at that (meaning their mechanics won't have as much experience working on them as they are rarely seen)

The original cars were set-up differently, the GT86 being more tail happy...

Either go by price or since you are not going to mod, pick the one that you think looks the best.

Both Items you speak of are Made In The Same Factory by the same workers.


Subaru has removed their cheapo model for 2020.


Best to buy a 2019 if you want cheap in that brand.


If you want the cheapest in a 2020 must buy Toyota.


If you wait for the second generation in about 2021 you'll have to put up with more of that 'safety' crap than the current models.


Personal opinion : They can shove all that newest safety crap...I want to actually drive a car with me in charge.

If you wait for the 2021 version you could be waiting a long, long time!


If ever.

I can confidently say that the Toyota offering is better. Just like how Tabasco sauce is better on burgers than ketchup.

To be real though, it comes down to this- would you rather tell people you have a Subaru sports car, or a Toyota sports car?

Whatever way you want to go you better make up your mind FAST or you will take what you can get.

I thought sales were in the toilet? I was thinking about getting a 1st Gen when the 2nd gen is being released hopefully at a firesale price. If nothing available oh well I guess. I just wish Toyota didn't change the grill shape.

Sorry guys.


Just going to copy & paste in all the related threads.


For those of you thinking there are going to be great deals as the dealerships try to get rid of their "excess" inventory. Keep dreamin'!


I have to sit through a two hour meeting on the state of the industry twice a week.

Some FACTS:


There is not a single new car being made right now.
Most companies have not made any for 3 to 6 weeks.
It will be anywhere from 2 to 8 weeks before most are making cars again.
This means someplace between 8 and 12 MILLION less new cars built this year.
The whole industry is at a zero cash flow level.
When production does ramp up again it will be slow and restricted to high demand/volume models to restore cash flow.
Several of the smaller parts suppliers will not survive this which will hamper the start ups even more.
Many of the manufactures should be tooling over to the 2021 models within the next 60 days.
They are trying to decide if they will return to making 2020 models or go straight into the 2021s.
R&D is on hold with every single manufacturer so no new models are being worked on (see cash flow above).
Low volume cars are most certainly DONE for this year and probably for at least two more. IF they come back at all.
The glut of used cars that is already building will hammer another nail into the coffin of the new ones.




I know that there will be a bunch of armchair experts working at McDonalds that will dispute this information but at this point in time there is about an 85% probability you can kiss the Twins (in any form) goodbye forever.


Forget everything you think you know about the auto industry because NONE of it applies anymore and it will NEVER go back to pre Covid status. We are all living through the end of an automotive era as we know it.


Sincerely,
Tcoat
Senior Manager
Tier One automotive parts supplier
30 years in the business

Thanks mate!! So does that mean that the Twin can go back to a more realistic release date of 2030? I'm thinking that I should keep my car as it will be very sought after.

So they will hold on to their stock that they already can't sell. Got it, always figured that two door sports cars hold their value during a recession. I guess my dream is already over..

My personal opinion, based upon what the automotive market was doing even before it had it's teeth kicked in by Covid and the information I have seen in the last few days (there is more that I can not share or would be instantly fired) I think the probability of seeing a new 86 is extremely remote at any time in the future. Up to and including 2030. Even all the rumours and theories based upon that one stupid "leaked" release date slide can be ripped up and thrown away at this point.
I would very much love to be proven wrong though!

We are heading into a new way of life. Companies are realising that they can have staff working from home, so why have big offices in downtown locations.. my employer is running workshops and other large events via various web-based applications.. Obviously this doesn't apply to your industry or any that involves making stuff or mending stuff..

Oh they will sell. They just won't slash prices to do it.


It is all a supply and demand thing really.


In 2008 when the economy went for a shit people stopped buying but the manufacturers kept building until the lots were overfull. This resulted in some good deals for those that could still buy. It was a relatively slow and gradual process though and the reason that the deals were there was because the industry knew they could just fire up and make more on a moments notice.


This time around it is a whole different ball game! The manufacturers had to shut down fast with no chance to fill their lots. The cars that were on the dealer lot's or in transit are all that there is. The start up is going to be slow and painful as parts suppliers try to get going again. There are hundreds of suppliers involved in each car and starting up is NOT just a matter of flipping a switch and parts fall off at the end of a line. Meanwhile all the different governments stimulus packages and people still working mean people are still buying what few new cars there are which creates a demand for the few that exist.


The different companies are already giving some nice financing incentives on SOME vehicles but it won't be long before they just take a "take it or leave it stance" on pricing. There will be deals and incentives if you are looking for a nice F150 base or a shiny new Dodge Caravan but niche sportscars are not going to be on that incentive list.

I kind of see why people don't like posting on this forum with you lording over every post. I guess every forum needs their resident self important blowhard. Anyways I got the info I needed out of this thread. Thanks to those with helpful info.

Trying to explain the situation makes me a blowhard?


Exactly what is your other profile name that you would even say this?




LOL You only heard what you wanted to in this thread you are a waste of time.

Called it!


"I know that there will be a bunch of armchair experts working at McDonalds that will dispute this information"

I guess you're trying hard to reinforce my point.

I can only hope you are wrong. thanks for the information from an insiders perspective. sad really.

Appropriate user name, poop.

I will fight you :fighting0040:

Things change literally by the minute right now so in a week I may have a whole different story but as of this morning things do not look good for any vehicle that doesn't sell many tens of thousands of units a year.
The only thing that is sure is that the industry will emerge totally different and what we all knew as "normal" sales and plans before will no longer exist.

Who the hell puts Tabasco sauce on a burger in the first place?

Thank you for respecting the sauce enough to capitalize its name :wub:

FWIW, completely agree. We're going into a completely new world. As unsettling as it is for everyone, there will be no going back to 'normal' for the foreseeable future. The 'new normal' is going to be very different from the life we have all known. We all want everything to just go back the way it's been, go back to life as we knew it, but it's just not going to happen.

The impact on the next-gen twins is that all car companies are now going to be in cash conservation mode for quite a while. It's sheer survival. Not so much how to maximize revenues, but how to minimize the bleeding. Even Toyota, the largest car company in the world, is going to be focusing on minimizing the pain.

Toyota is a completely financially driven company. I interviewed for a position in new product planning with Toyota over 30 years ago, and was turned down. Their reason was that I was "too much of a car guy". They were afraid that I would let my love of cars get in the way of making strictly financially-based decisions. Every one of the dozen or so people I interviewed with at the time were proud of not being 'car people', but strictly financial types. Making decisions based strictly on the 'numbers' was the Toyota way, and I suspect it hasn't changed.

Even though Toyota's pockets are very deep, they may well decide that it's better to cut their losses and discontinue development - and spending - on what would at best be a niche car with an inconsequential impact on sales. Even in a best case (pre-coronavirus) scenario, the 86/BRZ would be trivial in terms of total Toyota sales (and Subaru, at 1/10 the size, can't do it on its own). In the new world order, it's probably going to be hard to make a case for continuing to spend money on a specialized niche car that might not make any return on investment (or certainly not as good a ROI as a mass-market car such as a Camry). A couple of days' worth of Camry sales probably exceed an entire years' 86/BRZ revenues.

I would absolutely love to see a new BRZ/86 with a turbo 2.4 engine. Even though I just bought my 2019 6 months ago, I'd be the first in line for one. But the harsh reality is that it's just not likely to happen.

Understand the world has changed a lot because of COVID-19. I mentioned this scenario in the thread below a few weeks back and you said the complete opposite? It really has gone to shit. Thanks for sharing. I guess our current and likely only gen will be an instant classic, well as time goes on anyway.

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/show...97#post3311097

It has indeed changed that much in this short a time. I have said in a couple of threads that I have totally changed my prior statements based on the new info. I have also explained in a couple of places that the "normal" contract requirements can only be overridden by an "disaster clause" where the agreed upon contracts can be voided. The disaster clause has some very heavy requirements that rarely can be applied. This is the only time in the industry history where that clause can be used en mass against all suppliers by all companies. What was normal has gone with the wind and a new normal will have to replace it. The industry will not just go back to what it was. It can't.
If things change I will possibly again change what I am saying since my opinion will change with the new facts.

Yeah fair enough, just looking at the news reports and what I’m seeing in my own industry, I’m in the IT dept. for a major insurer over here and the rate of change to our systems and products in the past few weeks, I’ve never seen in my 20+ years in the industry. Pretty scary. I’m just glad to have a job at the moment to be honest.

At least we have the first gen. You’re very lucky to get the 2020 Hakone edition before everything went pear shaped.

after the 'better sources' spurred you to a 2020 model, i started seriously consider stretching for one of the 'last hurrah's'... now i almost wish i had, at the very same time i'm really happy to already have a '14...

Tcoat brings up a lot of good points that would impact the next 86 but I'm not as certain of the demise of NG as he would believe. Yes, the industry is suffering (which industry isn't?) but Toyota & Subaru have already spent years working on this program (typically 4-5 yrs out from SOP) and have millions (if not billions) in sunk costs. Toyota doesn't deviate from a strategy easily - whether for good or bad - and I expect if they are doing roadshows to share product plans in near-term pipeline, they will likely continue although timelines will be up for debate. I can see other OEM's scrapping plans based on conditions but being familiar with Toyota culture, my guess is that they move forward while tweaking plans.

With that said, I am surprised Toyota even would want a NG 86 based on where buyers are trending and how it overlaps with the 4-cylinder Supra so who knows...

This is all very upsetting. I wasn’t interested in buying the new model but was definitely curious about it and was looking forward to seeing one at a local meet. Glad I got my ‘18 while I had the chance!

Hoping development resumes right where it left off once the economy gets back up and running, really looking forward to the next gen!

Toyota, like the rest of the industry, have had their prior cultures ground into the dust. You can no longer judge what will happen now by what they used to do. They could very easily throw all the money already spent out just to not spend more.

Emission and safety regulation isn't going to pause because the economy did. They likely won't be able to just pick up where they left off. Of course how bad that effects them will depend on how far along they where.