2021 Toyota Supra 4-Cylinder Details
 

Toyota 86
Engine: 2.0L
Power: 205 HP / 156 LB-FT
0-60: 6.4 Seconds
Weight: 2,776 Pounds
Transmission: 6-Speed Manual / 6-Speed Auto

Toyota Supra 2.0
Engine: Turbo 2.0L
Power: 255 HP / 295 LB-FT
0-60: 5.0 Seconds
Weight: 3,181 Pounds
Transmission: 8-Speed Auto

https://www.supramkv.com/threads/toy...bo-model.3386/

https://cdn.motor1.com/images/mgl/2M...-supra-2.0.jpg

That would be about right for my needs/desires - :)


humfrz

IMO, this kills any 86/BRZ with more than 215-20 horsepower. They won't bump up the power for the 86 when you can get a 4 cylinder Supra.

I could see the next gen come out with an NA 2.4 with 230hp maybe even 240hp. This definitely kills of any notion of a 2.4 turbo though IMO. Not that I thought that was likely. 230 to 240hp would still be less than the base Supra and it would have less torque if it is NA, plus the Supra would likely have a nicer interior etc. But yeah they’re kind cannibalising their own.

400 more lbs. for 50 more hp. Not sure I'd make that trade.

Also the face only a mother could love. The lack of a manual option is the final nail in the coffin. Pass for me.

its really the extra 140 torque you get from the Supra , over the T86 that matters (not so much HP). Plus an extra 400 lbs in weight ++. Are newer Turbo cars really that maintenance free / low-low maintenance , versus 5+ years ago??!!

What I really want to know, is what they will make with just a tune.

I wish Toyota canceled 86 and released the new mid-engine MR2 still using FA20. And Subaru would just release new BRZ with a turbo FA20 and upscale interior.

But its 140ft/lbs torque more will more than make up for the weight. Plus being a turbo its only a free boost mod away from more

I need some of those fake hood vents. They want 80-some grand for those on the one here in Portland.

Even assuming generously the 2.0 Supra will make 350 hp tuned at a weight of 3181 lbs and a price of 40k, I feel like that's too much of a premium over a sport package 370z making 332 hp at a weight of 3333 lbs and a price of $34k.

Obviously the 370z will be the inferior car, but the fact that it's a decent match on paper at $6k less and not tuned (and over a decade old) doesn't bode well for the 2.0 Supra. And you can get the 370z with a manual.

Just my 2c.

Yes, the B48 used in the 4 cylinder Zupra is in a very low tune. Same basic engine (with a few re-enforced components) can put out 302HP/225kW and 332 lb-ft/450Nm in the new JCW Minis.

But the only reason it is $6K less is because it IS a 10 year old car. If it had anything more than minor upgrades in the time it has existed the price gap would have been closed by now.

Besides every time you walk up to it you have to look at those horrible horrible door handles.

Hah I had a 350z with vertical door handles and yeah it took some getting used to. Not a dealbreaker on the 370z for me, but the interior, thrashy engine, and overall heavy feel of the car would be.

Amazing how people asked for a manual and got gifted with an automatic 4 cylinder instead. I've never been one to hate on the new supra, but honestly, it's a shitshow at this point. If they had made the 4 cyl manual it'd be a reasonable proposition for a build candidate at least, but as it is, it's a really puzzling value proposition.

Again, I've never been one to ask for more power from an 86, but it seems like the performance level the 4 cylinder supra is positioned at would be better served by a cheaper, hotter 86. Lessons learned from gaming: people always like it when something gets buffed, people always hate it when something gets nerfed.

Someday people will come to realize that the companies don't care what some teeny tiny percentage of the car buyers ask for. They will build to the majority and as sad as it may be the majority of car buyers now want ATs. It is a very good AT though.

Once again I will say that a much "hotter" version of the 86 would cost and spec in about the same as the low level Supra and that just ain't gonna' happen. Funny that the majority of people asked for a light weight NA sports car but then when they gave us one there is a number of people screaming "this isn't what we wanted".

Eh, hotter can just mean lighter. Take another 200 pounds out of a base model and use performance pack suspension and brakes and its a screamer.

I know you're right, but I'd still prefer the 86 in your scenario, and it's hard to believe between two cars, one being a dedicated 2 seater and the other being a 2+2 "baby GT" car that the 2 seater would win out.

Which is really why we won't see the spec increase for the 86, just like they probably won't bring the GR Yaris over - they don't want their halo car being beat by their economy cars.

I don't work for Toyota , but I'd speculate to say that 80-90% of their time /energy goes to developing "eco" economy cars / hybrids (Prius, etc) that type /flow of vehicle. Which makes sense, as energy is energy, you have less of it as you get older, and the reality is who doesn't want their car/SUV vehicle to be more energy efficient in the grand scheme of things ??!!

Wait for the Avalon /upper end Lexus sedans to become all Hybrid and/or some kind of electric car. That will be the turn of the tides, a luxury car that is very energy efficient .... that should bring car buyers in ... buying =. game changer there. Then others will follow, Infinity , MB, Acura ... etc.

So I finally got to at least sit in the new Supra yesterday at the Chicago Auto Show. Have to say,not a fan at all. I'm 6'1",192-ish,and the cabin is extremely cramped for me.

Also,I have to say,the FR-S really spoiled me as far as front visibility. The way the hood drops out of sight is unlike almost every other car,and when you get into a car and see what looks like endless hood,it's kind of jarring.

Anyway,from everything I've heard,it's a great car to drive,even if it's an automatic,but to have the same car that's nerfed down to a four banger,I just don't quite understand it. Maybe they are trying to appeal to the poser crowd,or women that usually buy Porsche boxsters.

As stated earlier, we are the minority. They have the numbers and demographics and know who might buy what. If a cheaper version of a Supra will sell more and the best way to get there is a cheaper engine then they make money. Being the minority we have to rely on the aftermarket, which frankly has generally done a good job of giving us what we want. Sure no warranty but you gotta pay to play.

I keep coming back to this, but I sat in a 2020 Supra at the dealer and I like it. I wonder if they offer the manual in year 3?



If the next 86 doesn't do anything for me, I will upgrade to a 4cylinder Supra. I still have another manual car to row gears in!

Exactly.

Not likely. The Supra is just a BMW, built by BMW (actually Magna Steyr) in their plant in Graz, Austria. A manual would only be possible if BMW made one for it, and they don't seem to have any interest in designing, certifying, and manufacturing a manual transmission for the small incremental increase in sales it might offer.

I recall reading someplace Toyota saying that if you want a manual transmission, you should by a 86/BRZ. Hopefully a manual will still be offered in the next generation car. But with manuals as a percentage of total sales continuing to decline, I wouldn't be surprised if Toyota decides it's not worth it, and only offers an automatic.

That's why I recently bought my new 2019 BRZ. I only wanted a manual (and red), and didn't want to take the chance that the next gen car wouldn't have one. If it turns out to be irresistible, I'll get one. Until then, I'm having a blast with my car.

Couldn't you just do that yourself? When the OEM does its the price skyrockets.

Well, the way I see it, if I want a one piece carbon driveshaft, I paid for a useless stock steel driveshaft on top of it. If i want a backseat delete, i paid for those for nothing, if I want shocks and springs, I've got a set of useless ones under the car now that cost a good chunk of change at the factory. Same with a lighter Ti catback.

Not having parts duplication is always cheaper, the question would be, what kind of markup would that added performance warrant? I'd wager paying for the upcharge would beat the price to do it after the fact.

That is an interesting perspective looking at the ~30-40% upcharge for lighter versions of current offerings from Subaru, Lexus, Nissan and Porsche.

https://www.autoblog.com/2019/05/22/...mission-supra/

BMW already offers a manual transmission on the base model 4cyl Z4 in Europe which is why many people were hoping Toyota would do the same when they announced the 4cyl Supra would be coming to the States.

Granted, BMW only offers the manual with the lower powered 195hp 4cylinder and not the 255hp tuned engine (which seems to be the one the US supra will get) and maybe that's why Toyota didn't do it. But who knows it's all speculation at this point

If Toyota pulled out don't you think Subaru would instantly kill off its only non 4 wheel drive car in its line up?

You can sell all that stuff. If the manufacturer did it you would need to pay double.

Sounds like you want to pay mass produced prices for a totally custom car. Not gonna happen. Those heavier cheaper parts make the car affordable and keep it from competing with more expensive cars.

A perfect example is the Subaru STI S209. All trick parts from the factory and it’s 64k, which is absurd for that car. I would build a 22b custom for way less and perform better.

What you want would cost so much you would be buying others cars in that price range.

I always felt that the aftermarket usually provides what’s needed or wanted. Sure you pay more but it’s over time, you can sell Oem parts and for most of us it’s fun to do the mods and see the improvements.

There is no other sports car in Subaru lineup. BRZ is good for their brand image and nicely complements their product portfolio. I think they would keep BRZ disregarding the economic mess following the pandemic. And they would be able to have the car as a competitor to Supra. I can see an NA and a turbo STI model.

Given that Toyota will have three models of Supra in a wide performance and price range, they might just need another Celica or MR2 as the next 86.

Joint production of 86/BRZ looks like a conflict of interest to me.

Not sure they would, if Toyota dropped out. Remember they have a factory dedicated to this production, and what keeps the line running is the combined total of units.

If you drop the Toyota units out, Subaru would either have to build/sell more BRZs (unlikely) or they would have to retool the factory to build more than one car (also seems unlikely) or reduce the number of cars coming out of the factory, which probably doesn't make sense either.

what variant of the supra comes below 30 K....? go to japan, asia, australia, etc....4 cyl supra is still very expensive, 86 makes a hell of a lot more sense...in japan the 4 cyl supra is literally double the cost of the 86. The US is pretty much the only market that has a good price for both the 86 and supra even then there is a good price difference between 4 cyl supra and 86...

MR2 is a silly pipedream that doesn't work in this day and age of the automotive world. yes, let's add more complexity and development costs for a cheap sports car :bonk: fine just the way it is. if you really want a MR sports car, go get an elise...

Yeah, they might just drop BRZ if that is the case.

Edit: But Supra is more expensive and sells better. If they make an upscaled turbo BRZ, it might sell more than current BRZ. They could use all of that capacity for just Subaru.

Hyundai would like to have a word with you.

I fail to see why a MR layout alone would be anymore complex than a FF.

eh, how much is that hyundai going to cost? if it comes below $40 K, I would be impressed but hard to imagine that.

drivetrain sure, but the separate platform, chassis, development costs and tooling wise it doesn't make sense for a cheap sports car..

If the BRZ gets too pricey, the WRX or STI come into play. Sure they are not the same but the practicality could win in that price range.

I can very well see that price being only slightly above the Veloster N. If it was going to be more expensive than let's say 40k USD, I'd bet it would be under the Genesis branding and not Hyundai.