Weird shifting? Maybe? Please tell me I am wrong.
 

I will try to keep this as short as possible, and sorry in advance if I may have put this under the wrong forum category. I own a 2018 BRZ with the performance package. It was bought new with some minor things which of one was fixed by the dealer that I can state if need be, but they are merely cosmetic. Main point, bought new with only 50 miles. While shifting this car like most of the variants it seems to not want to go into first or second when cold or warmed up. But here is the thing. Whenever I shift into third, and sometimes second or fourth, the car wants to hesitate, and rocks back and fourth, and after the 4th time rocking back and fourth it starts to go smoothly again, but by then I am already going to shift into the next gear. I have taken others advice about slipping the clutch. Which I myself thought was VERY VERY BAD for the transmission and clutch plates, but the argument of using up brakes and replacing them like a clutch gets brought up. I will add that I have a 30 year old corolla, and it is stick like the brz, and I can bang the clutch in and out, shift fast and everything is smooth. (Yes if I mess up it isn't of course). There is simply no way to shift fast or let the clutch out slowly and smoothly in the BRZ however (with rev matching or even double clutching). It stills is rough in 1st and 2nd no matter what and quite frequently it rocks back and fourth a couple of times like hesitating when shifting into 2nd 3rd or 4th. I would also like to add I have never slipped the clutch between shifts until I acquired the BRZ. Going from a stop to 1st is one thing, but slipping the clutch between every gear just to get it to be smooth.

This has nothing to do with all that I guess, but if anyone here has an ft86z with a brembo or a big brake kit, it is hard to heel toe downshift? Whenever I touch the brakes as light as possible the car seems to want to come to a halt, and I just have to coast in neutral, or I would have to be downshifting through three gears extremely fast (to fast for the abilities that I currently have, I don't want to break something).

I think u ll just need to drive it more.

all normal. clunky when cold. your trans/clutch also needs time to break in. shifting gates can be finicky since they are rather small. my shifter started feeling perfect after at least 10-15 K miles and now I have no problems shifting fast but of course I gotta wait until it warms up. compared to your corolla, modern clutches have a clutch delay valve and the shifter assembly is a bit different, it aint going to feel the same. either way, just remember they went with an aisin trans meant for low torque and high feel, refinement was not a priority on this platform.

as for downshifting, I'm not sure what you're referring to and I hope you know that ya can skip gears, I rev match from 5 to 3 often when coming off the highway..as stated above, ya probably just could use more practice

+1 to don't slip the clutch and drive it more. It took my transmission a few thousand miles to wear in too. IMO the car is easier to drive aggressively than sedately if that helps. Give it a bit to warm up, then show it who's boss.

The PP has nothing to do with anything, it's all the same engine and tranny.
As for your problems, it's just you have to get used to the odd ball shift point.

It was the same for me when I got mine. I question my shifting technique because my MR2 was smooth and butter even when banging it fast.

Just keep driving it and eventually you'll feel the right shift point. Also helps to rev match up shits if that makes senses. But I noticed this car likes it when you give it more gas while shifting.

Take it to the dealer and have someone else drive it with you in the car. If they are smooth you need work if they have the same problem have them fixit.

Or the OP might want to have another manual shift BRZ/FR-S/Toyota 86 owner drive it with him in the car and see what he has to say.

Weird shifting? Maybe? Please tell me I am wrong.
 

You say you have a 30yo Corolla but have you owned any manuals with DBW?

Old manuals are much easier to drive smooth. The lag from DBW makes timing a smooth shift a challenge. My first DBW car was an IS300 which has TONS of lag. That car was hard to shift smooth even after owning it for many years. I also owned a G35 sedan (hated this car) which also had incredibly laggy DBW. I remember when I was selling it a guy was test driving and stalled over and over. I told him not to feel bad that it’s hard to drive. It’s hard to notice any DBW lag in the Twins but it’s still there and adds to the challenge. The clutch is also like a switch which doesn’t help. Hang in there, you will master it.

BTW, you can swap the slave cylinder for a smaller one which helps a lot with the pedal feel. I think I paid $35 for mine and it’s a 5 min job to install.

i would say its not the most forgiving car to drive when it comes to shifting. but sounds like you need to figure out how fast you're shifting depending on how high your rpms are.

the 1st and 2nd gear thing is never going away but it should smooth out a bit over time.

Also the 4.3 gearing is more aggressive in the 17+.

I feel more of a "punch" between shifts compared to my '13's 4.1.

Thanks for the advice, and I myself really don't want to slip the clutch but for now it seems like it is the only way to obtain a smooth shift. The sad part is most people actually recommend this as well, but now I know why.

Thank you for your response, but I mentioned Performance Package because the brakes on the car are extremely grabby even for a lightweight vehicle.

I may try to do this when I can, a dealer and an owner of his own would both be great places t start. Thank you.

I am very happy to have you reply as I learned something new today! I have no idea what Drive by Wire is, but after searching it up I only seem to find groups of angry enthusiasts complaining about lagging and un responsive throttle, and maybe the fact it might be more expensive to produce? Is there a reason why most companies are starting to use these new technologies as they don't seem to be very proficient which is kind of odd for newer cars to be called innovated when they have parts that aren't as great.

Furthermore I thank you all for your replies, and am overjoyed to have you all trying to help me out when I myself was seeking answers. Thanks again and any new replies and past experiences are certainly welcome!

Drive by wire is for traction control. If the wheels start to slip the car can back off without you lifting. Helps with packaging to a degree, no cables to deal with.

Drive by wire has been around for 30 or 40 years. The lag is there, but it is much better than it used to be. I notice it most trying to rev match on down shifts, a quick stab doesn't always produce any throttle response. Almost like the accelerator pump is out.

Cars are much much safer than they were 30 years ago. Drive by wire is part of that.

Ah, that makes some more sense, thank you.

Transmission is super notchy for at least 10 Kmi but once the blocking rings lap together, it shift's beautifully.


The lack of clutch feel is bullshit. Might as well stuff a blanket in the foot well. :/


Ermax is on point even though he's exaggerating about the swap taking 5 mins.


https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77390

Lol never saw this. I know what I'm doing this spring now!

Hard pass on the SS-braided line. I was weak.

Okay, 6 mins. Hahaha

OP, I feel you for the most of what you're saying. The first month or two, I also had a rough time shifting smoothly and would often stall to my own surprise, leading to an overall initial dissatisfaction with driving this car. This is coming from almost 10 years of driving different manual cars beforehand. You will get used to it in due time though. Hell, I'm still not perfect driving mine and it's been over a year but it's 90% smooth. For a sports car, I'm really not sure how the engineers signed off on this when all Subaru ever emphasize for this car was the FEEL/CONNECTION of driving it.


There are three ways to improve clutch feel that will help improve driving smoothness:
- Clutch slave replacement as mentioned above
- Removing the assist spring above the clutch pedal
- Replacing the assist spring with a less springy one.


https://youtu.be/CAO5DuTRCFo <--- this video gives a good explanation and idea


For heel-toe downshift, no thanks to the DBW and sorta odd height difference between the pedals, I've learned that you really have to STAB the throttle in (precision and finesse be damned) to have a better chance of getting a proper revmatch. Intuitively, It feels like too much (because it IS if the throttle was cabled) but more often than not, it lands the rev perfectly in the lower gear. Works best above 3K RPM.



It's too bad this car isn't like the Miata, where you can hop in and your body muscles just "gets it" with the controls within the first drive. But like I said, you'll enjoy it more in due time.

I also find the clutch feel on the 86 platform to be different from any other sports car I've driven.
It grabs high and somewhat suddenly, it took me a while to get used to this but now I like it, even prefer it.
It does make the car more challenging to (performance) drive, however I find that challenge part of the appeal. It makes me a better driver, forces me to be more precise in my shifting, and has helped me bump up my skills (and that for me is fun, i.e. w/ every drive I can strive to learn & improve).

Also, echoing what others have posted, re: the shifter's unpleasant "notchiness"* definitely gets better (particularly with going into 1st) as I've added more mileage. This isn't so much about my improving skills or getting used to the BRZ's clutch/shifter but more about mechanical break in. This car was delivered from the factory really "tight" feeling, which seems like a throwback, as most other modern cars I've driven haven't required that same patience w/ break-in.

(*The shifter started to feel much better at about about 3-5K miles, and continues to feel even better as I approach 10K miles. There's now that good mechanical "notchiness" I like vs. the not so good notchiness that would sometimes require a double pump of the clutch/extra flick of the shifter to get into 1st after a full stop when the car was brand new).

lol spit my coffee.

Let's talk about throttle response with this idiotic VSC system. It is programmed to consider all sorts of things before it decides to respond to the gas pedal. One of these conditions is brake pedal application.

Imagine a less engaged driver making a panic stop. The driver may accidentally press both the brake and gas pedal. The programmers came up with a feature to aid in this potential situation. They cut the throttle while the brake is applied. Unfortunately for us enthusiasts, what they consider a mistake is called heel-toe.

I don't know about the refresh but up through 2016 model years, even the long press doesn't disable this feature. Pedal dance does.

I’ve never noticed it cutting throttle when on the gas and brake. When autoxing I do a lot of LFB. I use the long press on the TC button. The only time I suck at heal-toe is after an ECU reset. The throttle response seems to be all over the place for 100 miles or so.

I only notice the dbw system occasionally while rev-matching, like the ecu got distracted by a pretty girl.

My only complaint with vsc is that i have to long-hold every time i get in the car(of which I'll eventually fix). It's otherwise not intrusive enough for my style

I'm not saying the throttle cuts completely. It still works but the left side of the curve is scooped out.

Thanks a ton for this! I have heard about taking the spring out, but have heard many say it adds a 5% or 10% dead zone in the first part of the clutch where it kinda just wobbles and wiggles at the very top when foot is not on the clutch when driving. I have also heard that it did help with the feel though...


I have though of a few times, to either long hold the tc button, or pedal dance to be rid of all assists, but few acquaintances say that if anything at all bad happens while those assists are off they check the computer in the car after an accident (if totaled probably) and they end up giving you much less for the car for reckless or inducing bad driving behavior. I honestly do hope this isn't true, but then again, people talk.


Thanks for all for farthing this discussion. I recently found a DBW controller unit for the gt86 brz and frs which might help solve some problems. :)

I have a 17 w/ PP, and I feel like the same way. I have to slip the clutch for a split sec between shift, and it gets better as progression into higher gear. I also feel smoother if I add gas as I am letting go the clutch. Otherwise, once the clutch is engaged, you get the engine brake which makes the shift choppy.

Another thing I notice is that it's easier if I shift at high rpm, above 5k.

I have been having issues with my car since day 1. It only happens when shifting from 1st to 2nd some kind of metal rubbing noise. In fact, service tech couldn't fix it. Now I shift from 1st to neutral shake it a bit and then to 2nd. There is slight delay in rev though.

Echoing what others have observed, re: clutch & shifter...

I wouldn’t quite describe the action as “slipping” the clutch, however the 86 setup does seem to require a delicate balance between throttle and full release of the clutch just as the pedal begins to bite; which is higher than other cars I’ve driven, pretty much near the top of the travel.

Also agree that smooth shifting in the 86/FRS/BRZ does require just a bit more throttle (but not quite a clutch “slip”), and that the platform likes higher RPMs ie. definitely get smoother shifts when taking each gear to at least above 4000.