Radium surge tank
 

Who has a surge tank setup? What has your experience been? I'd like better fuel filtration and to be able to track with less than half a tank.

Are you ready to wear a fire suit every time you're in the car? Are you boosted? Ethanol?

A stock car on NA power with gasoline can run quite low.

If you don't already have the Verus fuel flapper door, you could try it.
https://www.verus-engineering.com/pr...tarvation-door
There is a thread somewhere on this forum about it.

Car is far from stock it will have an LS3 crate motor running on MoTeC. I’m walking a fine line between street and track car for now. Eventually if California doesn’t want to let me drive it anymore it will be caged and towed to and from the track. You really think I can’t drive it without a fire suit? I’ve found the stock fuel filter to be inadequate so aside from being able to run hard down to empty I’d like some more peace of mind when it comes to the fuel being filtered.

I’ve heard very mixed reviews on the fuel flapper.

I still fuel starve towards the end of a session with the velox fuel flap door installed if I go out with less than 2/3 tank :(


It's not a cure-all.

That’s what I’ve heard. Thanks for your input. I’ll probably be going through half a tank in a 20 min session. So it sounds like a surge tank would almost be mandatory.

yep. I go through a little more than a 1/4 tank per session. If I go out with a half tank or a hair more, I'll starve before the session is over.

Well I think it works on NA+tune, but if you're swapping the engine for something that will use that much fuel, then no the flapper isn't going to be enough.

I would highly caution you against driving without a fire suit once you have a surge tank in the car. Aftermarket surge tanks are not built to OEM standards for resistance to the elements and even use. Even with race level maintenance, every race car driver will have a fire suit on, because the risk of fire is high enough to mandate it. When being driven hard, even the smallest failure in the system can lead to a catastrophic fire.

To put it in perspective, I would consider a fire suit to be higher priority over a HANS type device, or even air bags, with a surge tank. Imagine if someone hit you on the road, and a link just barely got kinked and springs a small drip. Things involving fuel and a lot of hot surfaces (and a car has a LOT of those), can get ugly very quickly.

What about Radium's fuel pump hanger? Anyone have this?

Ok Mike, you've convinced me. Now can I drive without any starvation at least to a half tank with their fuel pump hanger? Being able to convert the oem returnless system to a traditional return system seems like it would be beneficial. It would also address the filtration issue.

Really? I haven't seen anything like this.

You sure it's installed correctly? No problems with your fuel pump?


I'm boosted and can practically run down to vapours without issue. I see close to 2G's cornering and consistently hit 1.4G's braking on the track.

That, I can't confirm either way, as I've not tested or seen one in action in person

Yup. Pulled, checked, re-installed. It's in there correctly. Correct orientation, and flaps freely.


Regarding the fuel pump, I don't have any issues that I know about, and it is the factory fuel pump.


Headers and a 93 octane tune are all that's going on for power, so I'd be surprised if it's having issues keeping up. 24K miles on the car - how long do they last? Starving it a couple dozen times hasn't helped it I'm sure, but as long as I keep the tank at a level higher than I'd like, I don't get the starvation.


It happens repeatedly in 3 corners on one track, and one corner in another, so the issue is repeatable.

2 G's in the corners and you can run down to empty?? Umm, ok I'll bite what is your setup? You must be faster on track than most Corvettes running slicks then. Lets see some video!

I run time trial and on E85 couldn't go below a half tank on E85 when NA or below a half tank with 100 octane when supercharged without starving when I ran the velox flap. I now have a full surge system and can run down to vapors. The track Joe is talking about is also notoriously bad for fuel starving as there are two very long left sweepers right in a row.

I was hoping you'd chime in Jason - I need to pick your brain sometime about that surge system :) And being faster while I'm at it ;)

Yep, you know exactly where I'm talking about. Heidi finally had it happen - while poaching Jim's wider wheels haha! Same thing at MSR Houston coming out of the carousel running ccw

You don't need a surge tank - just a properly functioning transfer pump system with an actual pump doing the transferring from one side of the saddle tank to the other instead of the vacuum-based system Toyota went all cutesy with.

Radium Surge tank with e85 compatible pump and internal pressure regulator are coming my way. Got my order from Jegs yesterday with all the needed fittings, AN hose, connectors, etc. Just have to wire and plumb it up! Will report back on the process and function once I have it together.

You ever finish your surge tank setup?

What if the surge tank/external pumps were mounted outside - under the car? OEMs did that for decades without issue. You could even build a thick-walled housing, to protect it from damage.

I see they offer a horizontal mount system now.

Still need a fire suit. It's safer in the car within the shell.

Of course, someone will do this on their street car anyways. It's their life.

Almost every modification you do to a car aside from brakes in someway might endanger your life. I still think the worst one is giving up the the steering wheel airbag in a street car. Mine will not be a street car for long, it's on the path to full time track car just not there yet...

Some more so than others, but messing with the fueling system has much higher consequences than say... using a different brand of tires, with TUV approved wheels.

Understood. It wasn't really something I wanted to do but I don't think I'd be able to make it through a single 20 minute session without starvation even with a full tank of fuel without one. I looked at the Radium fuel hanger and after everything was done including converting from OEM returnless system to traditional return system it was going to cost way more than a surge tank with no guarantee of fixing the issue. It definitley was a compromise as is everything when it comes to a street/track car.

Understood.


Mike - what have you done to combat this issue with your track car? You're running a boosted setup with similar HP to me in your '86.

I have had zero problems to date in mine -- but I also haven't driven any tracks with long, left hand sweepers. I will be driving a few new tracks this coming season, and I'd rather solve this issue before running into it.


I do have an idea - anyone have a picture of the top of an FRS/BRZ fuel tank out of the car I can take a look at??

I've not yet found an optimal solution yet. I run hydramat, and literally fill up my tank to the brim before each outing.

How have you achieved this? I installed the flap which improved starvation on th Amaroo circuit with 2 consecutive left handers, but on the Sydney Motorsport Park I starve halfway down the straight after the 2 long left handers that lead onto the straight. It's like having a rev limiter at 6000rpm in 5th.

Now looking at what to do next.... Ideas?

I've a new 2022 BRZ and am wondering if in 2020 or 2022 they have addressed the fuel starvation issues or is still the same problem/same fuel pickup design?

I've had to run the tank full in my STI. I had some foam in the tank at one point, that helped. Then some of it disintegrated and made a big mess.
I've thought of getting the Hydramat.
It seems only one person mentioned it and it was not a solution? I'm surprised.

If I must do a surge tank it sure as hell won't be in the engine compartment and I'll put in a fireproof bulkhead. First, I'll think hard about a manually actuated transfer pump for the right side.