Throttle Controllers
 

I haven't seen anyone talking about these things yet, but Tom's, Blitz, and a bunch of other JDM tuning brands are selling electronic throttle controllers for the 86/BRZ. I was wondering if anyone has experience with these and can explain their use/value? I understand how they work, just curious if they are worth while. All my previous cars had mechanical throttles so these are new to me.

Examples:

Blitz Full Auto Light
http://www.blitz.co.jp/products/elec...ler_light.html

Blitz Full Auto Plus
http://www.blitz.co.jp/products/elec...ocon_plus.html
http://www.blitz.co.jp/products/elec...onplus_ttl.jpg

http://youtu.be/vBpkU1DgrAM

I think OBX makes a ghetto version of this. Even I don't know if they are good.

I can't find the thread but someone actually did a test or relayed a JDM test that showed that the throttle controllers work worse than stock and generally just make the car idle worse.

All throttle controllers do is trick the relationship between the throttle pedal (your foot) and the throttle blade (your engine). You can achieve exactly the same result by pushing the pedal down further or less. Its not magic, in fact its not even good. Its a gimmick.

It allows you to tune the throttle-by-wire's response time. I have something similar in my Audi, called "Drive Select". In normal mode there is a slight lag in throttle response (very slight) to improve fuel economy. In "Dynamic" mode it sharpens the throttle response to make it feel more sporty. In "Comfort" mode it delays throttle response even further, to avoid jerky accelaration. I almost never take it out of normal mode but there is a marked difference between the three modes. Would I spend the money on one of these, though? No.

If all you want is acceleration then yes, I agree.

However, as I've gone through a few HPDEs I have realized the importance of throttle modulation. Being able to make small, precise changes in the amount of throttle input allows you to transfer weight more smoothly and ultimately go faster.

So, the ideal pedal-to-butterfly relationship (IMO so far) is a 1:1 relationship. Draw a graph. Make throttle input the X axis and throttle/butterfly opening the Y axis. The relationship I'm describing is a line that starts at the origin and has a slope of 1, extending to 100% throttle input and 100% throttle opening.

These throttle controllers can change that line into a curve. I forget how to describe it (been a while since math class) but I'm thinking of something like an exponential function.

What I am curious to know is if the stock throttle map is linear (straight line) or not. If it is, then no need for a throttle controller in my opinion, unless you just like to tool around town and don't need the precision. The other case may be that you want to dampen the throttle to trick yourself into driving more slowly to save gas.

I wouldnt have thought there would be too much need to modulate the throttle in small increments on a 200hp NA four cylinder to control its attitude. Flat out on the throttle or flat out on the brake pedal in something like the FT86. I will get to prove this in mine at the track in the next few weeks :brokenheart:

So you don't modulate the throttle when you drive your 86 on the track?

Not to the point where the throttle action or slope of throttle needs to be changed with a tricker box. Now maybe a 500hp FRS might be a different story.... :thumbsup:

Throttle and engine load are different :P

it's an SAFC for your gas pedal

Hi all, I was searching for this information for quite sometime.. So GT86 does actually have the drive by wire? How close does the response compare to car which run with just wire directly and carb?
Reason why I'm asking its because I'm so used to old car which just run from pedal to throttle with wire (used to have ae85 then changed to ae86 and integra zx for daily drive). When I got Altezza, it just annoy me to no end with the throttle response. For just driving daily its okay but I just felt it does not have the response I want.

The drive by wire system is probably the same as used in the STi since 2004 and WRX since 2006. It's pretty good and there isn't really any throttle lag. Nobody installs these throttle controllers on those cars.

These actually have some good applications - throttle response (in terms of adjusting delay) is just one small part. The value in these is to create custom throttle curves...

As an example, the stock Tundra has a crazy sensitive throttle - it seemed like the first 10% of throttle movement went from 0% to 90% of throttle, and the remaining pedal movement did little or nothing. This was a real issue when trailering and trying to back up, maneuver a load, be precise etc.

with this box, you can really have the first bit of pedal movement feathered out, and make it really easy to control speed on the low end. you could make a full linear curve, an economy curve.. or all on if you wanted ;)

Granted, i'm not sure what application this would have on our cars.. I think the throttle is pretty well sorted.

It only makes a difference at part throttle. Full throttle there is no difference. Plenty of people have done 0-60 tests with and without and found no difference.

They are snake oil products IMO.

Worked great on my previous Honda Fit. Major stock lag.

FWIW, 04 STi was still mechanical, 05+ got the DBW.

To be honest. Stay away from these. Get a tune.

Outside of here I work in the motorcycle world. I see guys using these and even a few in the Subaru world that have had the gears jam on their throttle bodies from using these.

Plus you are only going to waste money if you going to get a tune anyways. Its one of the maps the tuner adjusts.

One reason people don't use these on a Subaru is that they start out pretty good. The other reason is that once the ECU has been cracked, these become a paperweight with wires. Rather than trick a throttle, you can adjust it exactly as you please in the ECU.

actually there are plenty of cable operated TB's that have a curve built in to the TB mechanism (example: Q45 TB that everyone uses) it scales the throttle so you can leave a light without burning the hides off the car, then after a ceretain point the curve goes linear and gets steep.

BACK TO THE CAR AT HAND:

the FRs/BRz seem to have throttle application limited at low RPM to limit torque (for economy or warranty I am not sure) that is the largest single benefit I could see from a device such as this, it may potentially allow full throttle opening at all RPM's, I will know for sure soon, waiting on my AEM patch harness from MPT.

There's no possibility of jamming gears or anything with one of these controllers. All it does is tell the ECU you are pressing the gas pedal a different amount than you actually are. It's not doing anything you couldn't do yourself by simply pressing the pedal a different amount. The difference is how the throttle responds to how much you are pressing the pedal.

I've used many different brands of throttle controller from Blitz to Pivot, etc. Never seen any vehicle ever have an issue, and I find they work very well.

Jeff

yuck, so reading this, you can't even trick the throttle to giving more angle than max allowed vs, RPM in the stock ECU?

bummer, officially useless, unless correcting drivability issues

There is plenty of ways to do so. Ever taken a failed one apart or the magic box to see how it tics? The increase voltage makes the motor move faster then the gears are made for. Causes a bind and then a failure. I have replaced a ton of these. HD doesn't warranty TB's anymore unless a rep has inspected the bike. Same thing with Subaru. Its happened a few times.

Remember by me posting this..... I have more to loose in sales. I just do not want people to have issues. Sure it might work, it might work for a while. But when it breaks it gets $$$..

And like I said. This is all addressed in a tune anyways.

My point is that in the FR-S, the controller is not connected to the throttle body, it's connected between the pedal and the ECU. The ECU is controlling the throttle body. How is it possible to force the ECU to move the throttle gear faster than it's designed to?

All the throttle pedal does is input a requested throttle value to the ECU. I could definitely see an issue if the controller was actually controlling the TB motor, but that isn't the case here.

Jeff

Basically, hold it flat when you want to go quick - same performance delivered - money saved :thumbsup:

Iirc Moto is testing an Apexi one right now. Haven't checked on how that is going but I'm sure we will hear from him soon enough.

In a drag race, yes. Through a corner, no.

OK so we probed around last night, and the throttle isn't limited versus RPM, it seems to be about as direct of a correlation between throttle angle and pedal angle as you can get, no real delay on inputs no real scaling to speak of,

At redline it closes throttle, other than that it does as you ask under the test conditions we exposed it to, So i have to retract all my statements about thinking the Torque dip and throttle limits were inter-related.

:burnrubber:

Could you throw together a quick graph of the data?

no graph needed, the only limitation seems to be the rate at which the motors respond, and the slowing ramp near WOT.

Both of these anomalies show up as a radius in an otherwise very square profile. but that is just the nature of the system.

Hi SkullWorks, thank you. So it does feel like running straight with cable? In Altezza on lower, it restricted to 50% tb even though you max out the pedal, and it always has the lag. Oh by the way the position between brake n accel pedal, are they align the same level? Altezza' accel pedal is located on deeper level, i wish they are same level.

And that rate is where you can find the gears fail. The plug in part just changes voltage to speed up the motor response. That adds a load to the system and can cause the failures I see on other systems.