V8 Swap in California
 

Anyone done an engine swap in California? Advice? As I understand it here, in California, as long as we use an engine of the same year of the car, or newer, and maintain the new engines emission system, we can legally (as in smog legal) swap in a new engine, even a V8.

Any experience with smog legal swaps in California?

Michael

One of the forum members said his ABS stopped working when he did a swap.

I believe you could use one of the E-Rod Crate engine. Comes with all of the Emissions needed.

LS3 E-Rod @ SummitRacing
@Drambeenie

ABS will be disables unless you address the CAN situation. MRS Electronics currently has the fix for this in the works.

I looked into this too but as I understood it, the Erod engines are only carb legal in a pre-obd2 vehicle which means pre 1996/1997.

Also to use the Erod, you need to install the cats (not sure about the intake or other components) that comes with the engine package and I'm not sure you could make those things fit with out some serious work.

Oh yeah, the E-Rod Crate engine. That could be a great option. Thanks.

EDIT: ILLSMOQ, your right, looks like E-Rod is allowed for "pre-1996 vehicles" only.

With such a new platform, you have to ask yourself the obvious question(s):

What do I want out of a V-8 that a boosted FA20 can't give me?
Do I want to pay for all the secondary wiring, fabrication, and certification to make the swap work?
What is my wallet made of and can I replicate it in a Starfleet replicator?

https://www.bar.ca.gov/Industry/Engi...uidelines.html

Don't forget, you also have to have this signed off at a BAR station. The inspection is trivial but you'll spend enough money to buy another used FRS/BRZ before you're done.

-alex

Alex,

Great points for sure. I drove a small block as a daily driver for 15 years prior to selling and getting my BRZ. After a year and a half with the BRZ, while I still love the car, I totally miss driving a V8 everyday. To be sure, what I really miss is the power and sound.

You know what I need to do is get a ride in a boosted BRZ/FRS and see what happens. If I could get fulfilled with boost, that I can install over the weekend, I would be up for that. :)

Any Sacramento/Roseville area E-Force owners listening? ;)

All the hoops you'd have to jump through to make this a California carb legal swap makes it a looser of a deal...just not worth it.

Yeah, seems like the cost/effort is a bit high.

Im going to Do a LS3 swap I live in northern California. Find a ref to work with throughout the whole process and don't switch. They will tell you what they need to pass it. It doesn't need to be carb legal it just has to meet that refs interpenetration of what needs to be on the car to make it leagal.

I was shooting for March but a car crash and changing employers has set it back a bit, probably will be the last part of the new year a 6 month set back. I will go talk to a Ref later this month and document what he tells me I need to make it pass. I will post it to help end the speculation.

If you need any help PM me

So if a ref interprets it as "whatever legal V8 from a model year car older than your chassis", that's okay?

Just because someone interprets it one way doesn't make it legal. The last thing you want is for someone to interpret his/her way, and your swap goes down the tube later down the road.

I've been involved in this process many times... the first part is the engine needs to be same model year or newer than the vehicle it is going into. And yes, the whole "interpretation of what needs to be on the car" is basically meeting the legal requirements of the California ARB, i.e. "CARB legal"..

-alex

I hope you can pull it off and it works out like you say. That would be awesome.

loser...
 

I'm sorry but I have to be a grammar nazi here. IT is a LOSER of a deal, it would only be a looser of a deal, if you could have a tighter deal...

Jaden

Here are the things that the ref will look for to meet Carb approval.
Fuel system
Headers
Catalytic converters
Intake
Actual emissions test.

Fuel System:
Does it have a working and proper EVAP/Purge/Canister/Recirc.VS.Returnless fuel that meets the emissions standards of the body of the car or the engine.

Headers:
Are they OEM or C.A.R.B. approved

Catalytic converters:
Are they OEM or C.A.R.B. approved for that engine family

Intake
Does the intake have all the proper vacuum/evap that meets OEM standards.
Does it have the factory throttle body for that vehicle class (Can't put a truck throttle body on a sedan)
Does it have OEM or C.A.R.B. approved intake manifold

Emissions test
Does it actually pass a smog check.

I despise people that use the word loose to mean loser. Shit pisses me off big time. Thank you for being the grammar nazi.:clap:

On my trusty iPhone with speelcheck and otto correct I figured I was good...guess not.

If this guy gets his swap done the way he says...then I'd say it's a pretty tight deal after all and the only loose thing around here would be your lips and (_|_) ..!..

@BigFatFlip, go make a new friend!

How does the ref station or BAR determine if the engine is the same model year or not? Are they checking vin #? Same with say a throttle body from a truck?

I had a MR2 that had an engine swap and it passed smog. Being mid engine it was difficult to look at the engine bay so all they did was the OBDII scan and it passed.Obviously though a v8 in the fr-s engine bay will likely cause it to fail visual inspection. Then again a lot of smog shops don't even really bother with a visible inspection anymore.

Engine serial number, usually.

-alex

From talking with other companies that do engine conversions and LS swaps, any car after 1996 is very hard to get fully certified. I wouldn't say impossible but needing to throw lots of money at the problem.

If I recall the Motor Trend 240SX V8 swap had emissions compliance:

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bL4kIk8mXSk"]1993 Nissan 240SX Part 4: The 240SS Is Born! (With the Help of an LS3) - Ignition Ep. 120 - YouTube[/ame]

might help

OBD-II is the primary issue, because you still need to pass a smog check and you still need to show that the OBD system is in full working order.

Which is why many people think it's easy, but usually just go for cheaper, street-legal methods like CARB-EO FI kits.

-alex

That's the E-rod as mentioned earlier in the thread, only works on pre '96 cars that aren't OBD2 as mentioned earlier in the thread. It's not helpful for the OP other than the mention of fitting the OE emissions equipment and that it passed inspection.

I hadn't seen that video before but it's a fantastic illustration of how little you get for your money and effort on a V8 swap, to keep it short it just makes me put on my benchracing hat. I'd be surprised if that car cost them less than $20k to build, that's an $8k engine, $2k swap kit, $4k coilovers, $2k wheels, I don't want to know what the Brembos cost, and then labor and buying a 240sx that still drives straight.

That list of cars they put up? A lot of the 240ss' laptime had to do with having good tires and decent suspension/alignment, put the BFG Rivals they had on any of those cars and they'd pick up a noticeable amount of time.

Here's CSG at the same track in an 86 with 225 RS3's, Tein SRC's (admittedly $4k as well) and brakes, they're less than a second slower than the 240SS with less than half the horsepower.

If you want V8 power in a small coupe, the Corvette is nearly impossible to beat. If you want a more powerful 86, the aforementioned emissions legal super/turbo chargers are performing excellently and are installed in a weekend, it took Motor Trend over a year to finish that project.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZ2EGzZrOdM"]BRZ/FR-S Tein SRC testing at Streets of Willow Springs - YouTube[/ame]

I went to the ref today asked a few questions some of them were answered the others will have to wait until I can contact his supervisor. Apparently they are working to amend the rules for OBD2 cars , but as of now they were not sure when it will go into affect. He did mention this is a awesome swap. I will give a update as soon as I talk to the supervisor at this particular ref station.

Translation: "Thank you for giving us a heads up on what you are planning to do, so we can be sure to never ever approve it."

Meh, for once the guidelines are pretty straightforward, if it checks all the boxes there's no reason for them to deny it.

It's just that due to modern sensor and computer technology a few of those boxes are really fucking hard to check in a way that's easy for the average Joe.

Yep you gotta love a good challenge. It's doable and worth it to me, so it will get done.

The California Ref. I spoke to had said a few things that concerned me and I finally got clarification from his supervisor.

1 The ref said I had to use the fuel tank from the car I was sourcing the motor from. I have done legal swaps in the past and had to make the evap system work as it would in the car I sourced the engine from for the swap. The refs supervisor said the tank can remain the FR-S tank with the evap system in place from the vehicle I was sourcing the motor from. Big relief I thought something had changed.

2 Same transmission that was in the donor car so auto for auto or manual for manual. The supervisor said if the ecu is for a auto it needs to be auto. If the ecu is for a manual it needs to have a manual transmission.

3 I needed to know if all new parts were accepted not having a vin. The Ref didn't know. His supervisor said it's fine as log as it's got a stock program in it to run everything.

4 Stock exhaust manifolds and exhaust until after the last O2 sensor. Both confirmed no cutting welding or modifying those parts. This will require a test fit. If anyone has tried to fit them let me know. I was thinking turn them around backwards if the cats dont clear then run just the exhaust pipe through the opening between the firewall and subframe and steering shaft.

5 Can't void the factory emission warranty. I need to see how long that is. Anyone know?

Any updates?

Still acquiring parts. I just bought a house so it pushed back the completion date to early next year. I bought the engine/transmission mount kit from vorshlag, as well as the driveshaft and transmission. Next is all the electrical, brakes, clutch, fuel system, exhaust manifolds and cats. Engine will be purchased last.

I'm pretty sure it's 8 years/80k miles.

I am going to say this is your largest hurdle. The steering shaft is right in the way for pretty much every factory header i have looked at, except the c6/c7 vette as they come straight down. I remember someone saying they still needed a bit of modification to clear the engine mounts. Then the issues of factory cats being not far behind and decent sized.

I was thinking to run the manifolds on opposite sides of the motor the exit from the manifolds will exit at the front of the block close to the radiator, hopefully leaving enough room for cats between the manifold and firewall.

I won't know until mock up. If it works I will switch it out for something better( for off-road track use ):lol: after I get the sticker.

Any updates Zer0?

No. I bought a house so it slowed me down. I will be buying the engine, and other big ticket items in Feb. Your pretty close to me im just past Stockton.

Oh yeah, your close. I would enjoy checking out your progress when you get rolling. Figuring this swap out for California would be so cool.

Do you know if we need to stick with carb exhaust manifolds and stock cats only. Or do we need to stick with the exact exhaust system to the cats? (Meaning can we modify the exhaust pipes between the manifolds and the cats?)

Congrats on the new house.

It has to all be the stock setup unmodified from the manifolds to the end of the cats for the engine you plan on putting in. Putting on carb approved parts should be legal but they prefer oem parts.

You will have to roll by when I get going on it. I will be posting progress on the swap and how the ref goes. If I can or can't get it done.

once you get the swap plate...
 

Once you've got the carb swap plate mounted on your car, you're golden.

You could probably put a 5.3 iron block truck lq4 in your car if you blow the ls3 and you'd be good.

Jaden

It's going to be a LT4 from GM performance. It would be easier, and cheaper to do a LS3, but I'm looking for highest HP OEM motor I can afford. Almost got the stacks ready to blow on this thing.

Good luck!

I'll be watching very closely.