Sadly..I'm considering trading in the BRZ. I need some advice though!
 

So after some thought, I am considering moving on to a car that can fit more than 2 people in it comfortably.

Not too sure what exactly still doing some research.

The problem is I'm not really sure if I should try to trade the BRZ in towards the new car,or sell the car privately and use the funds toward the new car.

I only have around $5k left to pay off.

Looking for some advice from someone with more experience than me in this situation

Which direction would benefit me the most?

Another thing, I could return the car to stock no problem if I was trading it to the dealer. The only problem I see is that the insides of my headlights are painted black, I dont see any decent way to reverse that. Does anyone know if they would even take the car with modified headlights?

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

I would say that you will get the most out of it by returning as much back to stock as possible and selling the car and parts privately. it might take a while to get everything sold, but it will most likely be worth more than a dealership will give as trade in value.

on the other hand, if the dealership gives you a trade in value that is only slightly lower than what you think you can sell the car for, then go for it if you don't want the hassle since you can instantly get rid of it instead of waiting for the right buyer.

either way, return as much back to stock as you can. and I doubt the dealership will care you painted your headlights as long as they work.

Sounds like good advice. Are you sure about the dealer being ok with painted lights? Never seen a Subaru dealership sell any modded cars ever, could be my area though.

Can anyone else chime in?

As long as the painted headlights don't affect the functionality of the headlight (i.e. reduce light output) then the dealership shouldn't have a problem accepting it.

Another route you could take is swapping headllights with another member. I'm sure there is quite a bit of people out there who would like a painted headlight but don't feel brave enough to tackle the job themselves..

Check out carmax for trade in values if you do return it to stock, they give crazy values sometimes.

In some states you get a tax credit on the new car from your trade-in. That (along with ease of transaction) can make it worth it to trade the car in even though the trade-in value may be slightly less than a private party sale value.

Even if the dealer was not ok with the painted lights worse they would do is dock you on what the car is worth because of it. They would do this because in their mind they would need to remove the lights and replace them with new ones so that they can resell it.

If you return to stock and your BRZ qualifies as certified pre-owned, iirc there's a mileage limit, that would give you some bargaining power and probably best trade in value.

Air force guy?


Anyways, yeah the dealer will take the vehicle with painted headlights. They don't care about modifications as long as the car is clean and doesn't have anything wrong they will generally go off auction value. For a limited with under 30K you should expect 17K or so in trade.


Being that your vehicle is almost paid off you could actually leverage that and maybe get a better trade value which would equal more equity for you and make the process easier. Sometimes it isn't worth the hassle trying to return to stock / sell privately. Depends on how long you have and how much effort you want to make for a 2-3K difference. These cars don't hold value very well unfortunately so its all dependent on condition and mileage. Mods don't add value either....

I was offered a year ago for my white limited with exhaust and some other mods left on the car and a front bumper that needed a respray 18k. The car had 30k miles. Area you are in does effect the price to so just kinda an idea of what you can expect I guess.

*this* - if your net after payoff is 10k for example, thats 10k of your new car that you don't have to pay taxes on. most states allow it, couldnt find a recent list but as of 2011 the only municipalities that didnt allow it are:
California
District of Columbia
Hawaii
Kentucky
Maryland
Michigan
Montana
Virginia

If it were me I would bring your car to a couple of dealers first to see what you are looking at for a trade in. You can then find out how they feel about any of the non-stock items. Test drive something fun that you might be getting to haul more people like a BMW 335i or a WRX. With that number in mind as a backup, you will better know how to price your car and what offer you might accept from a private buyer. Selling privately is a PIA, but unless you are losing sales tax credits as mentioned above, you stand to save $2-3 thousand on the exchange.

Take it to Carmax and see how much they offer.

Do your homework first and get a range of values from KBB, Edmunds, autotrader etc

I was in a similar situation a month ago when going for a new STI -- same reasons as you, needed more room.
If you want another Subie and don't have any accidents, go back to stock and use the guarantee trade in program, it is absolutely killer.

If you're okay with having a period where you won't have a car between selling privately and getting new one then I'd suggest going that route.
But keep in mind if your state allows trade in to lower taxes, you may potentially be looking at an extra grand on top of trade in value.

At time of trade in I had aftermarket OP, FP, CBE, wintertires, and springs on it. Except for noticing the tips, they never mentioned, asked or noticed the rest.

In my situation, after trade-in value and tax credit, I estimate that a private sale would've netted me maybe $1K more 1.5K tops but I couldn't be without a car and it saved me the hassle so it was worth it to me.

But yeah go around to a couple of dealerships, make sure their appraiser is available and just get a benchmark. Literally takes like 20 minutes.

Good luck!

You can always get more selling it yourself, but unless you really really want to work hard at it or the dealer is being an ass you won't get too much more.

Remember before you take the car in to be traded to clean the every living heck out of it and detail it inside and out. That can raise the price a few thousand. And I agree check out carmax, they price the cars they sell best, if your area sells them you might get a great offer.

Get a WRX.

- negotiate the price of the new car
-then, negotiate the trade, go to carmax to get a rough estimate

It really depends on how much the dealer is offering you. They won't offer you as much, but you since the trade amount is deducted from the purchase of the new car before taxes are applied, you'll save that way. Just do your research on how much the comps are going for your car, tell the dealer you're not going to trade, get the numbers negotiated and then tell them maybe you'll trade in the car and have them make you an offer. Since they've already put in the legwork to make the sale and you've done your pricing homework, you can counter their trade offer. The BRZ is my 9th car. I got 9K selling my 2007 Camry V6 SE with with only 42,000 miles on it, because I got an appraisal from Carmax first and the Subaru dealership couldn't even come close to offering me that much since they don't have a nationwide dealership like Carmax. Either way, you'll have the comps, you'll already know what Carmax will offer you, and you'll have your deal set up with the salesman before you even talk about a trade in. I got more selling my Scion tC privately. And I saved more trading in my Mitsubishi Eclipse because the tax savings added as being in my favor even though the offer was less. Plus, if you "don't have a trade-in" and want to finance the new car, you can usually get a much better finance rate since the salesman wants to make his spiff on top of what ever commission for the sale. Play the long game and keep your cards close to your chest. Also, see if you can figure out how long the car has been on the lot. The dealership is having to pay finance fees to the manufacture, plus insurance, so the longer the car sits there the more they lose. Plus, besides what the dealers cost on the vehicle which is way less than MSRP, they usually get a manufacture incentive on top of the sale. I've paid well bellow MSRP for all my cars. When I was buying my BRZ, 3 other dealers were blowing up my phone trying to sell me one as I negotiating with the salesman. I put it on speaker.

Salesman have nothing to do with selling price or the financing of the deal.....

Depending on your location if you're on the west coast LA or SF or DC area east.

You should consider using Shift, they are a great service and could be beneficial to your situation.

Here's an article on them

http://thegarage.jalopnik.com/this-o...ord-1768677335

when I took my audi s4 "heavily modified" in to the dealership to trade it in the salesman told me to sell it private. He said the modified cars just go to auction and dont bring as much money.

that's not always true. Yes, if you get someone who hasn't done it for long and doesn't really know what is going on then you are right. But you wouldn't want to talk to that guy for any reason anyways.

However if you get someone that's been selling cars for more than a decade, they actually have a clue and the dealership they work at absolutely can let them do it all. Every dealership at its core has 2 or 3 people that are lifers that can literally do everything and because the dealership desperately needs them to sell their products they will do anything to keep them. Those are the people you want to talk to because not only can they give you the best deal but they can make everything easy and will have the ability and the desire to both give you a great deal and make the transaction quick and painless for everyone.

There is always a hierarchy. The salesman you are face to face with will not be in charge of numbers or financing terms. They will not be talking to banks and getting you the deal. They are a mouthpiece to get you on a vehicle and figure out what you need in a vehicle. All terms and conditions are worked through a manager who talks to the banks, and then a finance person who will also talk with a bank and sign the paperwork / sell you backend products.


People think the salesperson has some kind of authority, they don't. The vehicle pricing and working numbers is not in their hands. The only time I have ever seen a salesman have some kind of authority over pricing was when he was also the internet manager. So he did everything before the finance person did paperwork and signed documents, and that was a little dealership to begin with.


Have you ever worked in car sales?

Again that is just not true. Some dealerships do it that way, but not all of them. Some dealerships also understand they can give the people that have been doing this a decade a lot more leniency and let them do everything their own way. A smart dealership is going to handle the sales person that is always top 3 or 4 in sales month after month, year after year, a lot differently then they are going to handle someone who has only been selling cars a few months and is just getting their feet wet. And if they don't do that they are morons.

Yes most dealerships will handle most walk ins like you mentioned. However if you don't want that normal bs all you need to do is talk to the host and tell them to let you talk to the highest grossing salesperson because you want a quick sale and you know exactly what you want. Sometimes you can go through the internet sales person or the fleet salesperson to get a similar type of deal.

And while I did try my hand at actually selling cars, I have a lot experience being around the industry and I've been able to see a lot of different things first hand for various reasons, whether it be friends with top salespeople or people who actually negotiate car purchases for clients, among other things like going to used car auctions with people just for fun.

The biggest problem dealerships have is a massively gigantic turnover rate. Dealing with a lifer can be night and day difference compared to dealing with a hack at the same dealership on the same day. A lifer can know exactly what his sales manager would say, can even know exactly what the sales manager will do on most cars on the lot. At the dealership I worked at the top 3 sales people were always the top 3 sales people and could write a deal they knew without question the sales manager would simply rubber stamp and would walk into the finance office with the customer and would walk them through that process as well. One of them never took walk ins because he had no use for them, he had his base of people and he'd been at the dealership so long he could remain one of the best salesmen without ever taking a new person.

There are tons of ways of manipulating the process depending on what your goals are. The reason most sales people suck is the exact same reason true car can make a business of porking everyone and pretending they are giving people a good deal. People don't like conflict and don't want to fight and learn everything once a decade or so.

Not sure if you got more answers as I haven't read the whole thread.

But, I just traded in my FRS two weeks ago and it had blacked out headlight reflectors as well tail lights. They shouldn't care.

Trade in value is pretty good on these cars, at least where I live. You also get tax savings when you trade it in. Selling private party will almost always yield more, but it might take a while. Just have to weigh the cost/benefit/time factors and see which is best for you.

You're definitely giving salesman, and dealerships in general too much credit. There is always a hierarchy, period. Yes senior salesman generally have more leeway when it comes to talking to the desk, but the desk still puts together the deal. The goal of the salesman is the product, the goal of the desk is the money (dealership wants to make money BTW), and the goal of the finance manager is to sell backend products and paperwork. I think being in sales, and doing it gives a different perspective from working in the dealership in any other position.

Also, I never said anything about walk-in customers.


Caveat* Owner operated / buy here pay here / certain small volume dealers may be different.... I'm strictly talking about the average dealership here.

i'm not giving anyone too much credit. Most people trying to sell cars suck. Most dealerships have no clue what they are doing.

Sales people don't need to know product. They need to know how to sell, and they need to know their inventory. Anything else can be looked up. There is a reason the title is sales person.

I've never been to any dealership that did not have the salesperson start the deal, and have a sales manager okay it or maybe step in to finish the deal. I've also never been to any decent dealership that did not have the sales people on pure commission, so believe me they care about the deal. I've been to many different dealerships and seen quite a few deals done.

I've never heard of any concept of anything called "the desk." You must be referring to something at a tiny dealership. At most dealerships. even the largest, sales people are grouped into teams under a sales manager. The sales manager has final say. That is the only hierarchy in most dealerships. There can be many managers at a dealership depending on how large it is, but they always have the final say on a deal. The sales managers can report to a number of different titled people depending on how a dealership is organized, from a general manager to someone who just oversees the sales people to the owner. It varies.

Now a smart sales manager knows who his best sales people are, because they are the ones that make their paycheck get bigger. That is just common sense. They also know the people that don't really need much help and know what they are doing. A sales manager wants to not get involved, because that means cars are being sold for higher prices and that makes everyone happy. And in all honesty a sales manager is usually worse at negotiating than their best sales people. Because if they weren't they'd still be on the sales floor. They are there just to make sure the sales person doesn't screw up, and to make sure everyone sells enough cars. They also need to keep in mind all the other bonuses each sales person can get, and they themselves can get, and then that the dealership can get. Because at each level there is a modifier and bonuses for selling specific number of cars.

Finance people are on commission as well. Every thing they sell can be negotiated, people sometimes do not realize this. They can also lose sales for sales people by being jerks. This is why good sales people want as little to do with them as possible. This is why a sales person who sells a ton of cars will walk in with the customer.

Walk ins are how most car sales are started. That is how dealerships are set up. It literally means people that walk in cold from off the street. A good salesperson still probably won't get the sale that day. I forget the specific number, but I know less than 50% of people who walk in dealerships buy the same day. This is where salespeople fail the most. They never follow up. A good sales person will follow up every week with everyone he has met with until they've bought a car. This is how a lot of sales are really made. And the smart salesperson will give people honest advice even if that leads the customer to buy from somewhere else, because those people will always remember that. Dealerships really really suck at teaching people how to sell and what that really means.

Even as a person who never sold cars before, I was told to start the deal and start the negotiations. This was literally the only real training they gave me, how to structure the deals they wanted. Only after I'd spent some time negotiating was I even allowed to bring it to the attention of the sales manager. As I said before, I've never seen any dealership operate any other way. I've seen people negotiate with salesmen for 4+ hours haggling prices down and down and only at the very end when it was obvious we were going to walk did the sales manager step in.

So like I've been saying it isn't as cut and dry as you said. Smart sales managers know their people. That is the point of having them there.

The desk is what the sales manager sits at, where the deals are made. Sorry for using common terms. You literally just expounded the hierarchy I described. :lol: Point is, salesman have no power over ultimate pricing of a vehicle.

I have no beef on the BBQ here, but I'll tell you why : Sorry to say any solid/good sales person does know the product (as well as they can know it) , and to compare/contrast that product specs/info against the competition. That is one of the main top-10 main points any successful sales person needs to have under their wing. Period. If they didn't know the product and/or how to accurately respond to a customers question(s) in regards to the product in discussion, then sure they can go "look it up" .... but that takes time, time is money....yada-yada-yada. Think about it.

I've been there done that. I knew more about every car on the lot than anyone else. I couldn't sell crap. Salesmen are there to sell, not talk shop. It takes seconds to grab a binder and look up the specific specs of any car. Anyone who takes the time to research these cars will be better informed about them than a salesperson, because the buyer is only looking at 1 or two models, while the salesperson needs to know just enough about an entire line or two to sell them. And most people don't care about specs, they care about crash ratings or gas mileage or how great the car looks, or reliability, or cost of ownership. They might care about specific individual features, but that is easy to figure out.

There is a huge difference between how to answer a customers question and knowing every specific specification about a car. Very few people will care about how many cams or valves per cylinder or how many pistons each brake has, etc.

If you can afford it, you should get a used Mk7 Golf GTI and keep the BRZ. The GTI is a fun lightweight car with good power. It does everything well. You can get a used Mk7 GTI with less than 30k miles (ie still has some warranty left) for under $20k pretty easily.

I just bought a GTI and will also be keeping my turbo FRS.

The GTI is a fun car and a stage 1 puts out some insane numbers (I will be installing a JB1 stage 1 later this week).

You could look at the Golf R also but keep in mind the Golf R drives like a FWD car most of the time (all the power to front wheels). The Golf R only sends power to the rear wheels if slippage is detected on the front and it can send up to 50% of the power to the rears. Imo, the Type R isn't worth the $10k premium over the GTI. The GTI is more fun to drive around corners (from what I've read), mainly because its lighter and feels a bit 'livelier'.

But if you get the GTI, get it with the PP. I regret not getting the PP.

Damn, that's a pretty cool service.

Too bad they are not available in my area.

I'm hearing what you're saying and you're right, however at the same time to be blind about certain car specs in how they compare against the competition (spec vs. spec , dollar vs. dollar) isn't the best plan of attack ( man plans, god laughs).

Sure the salesman is the front man (grunt), there to qualify. The sales manager, others behind the big desk are the ones doing the big dealios.

buy a 370

Wow, havent been on here for a while and just read all of these replies. A lot of good info here. I went in to the dealership a few weeks ago, to check out a new STI. The salesman ran some numbers really quick (I could tell he wasnt as serious as I was about it) and came up with, your BRZ would be about a 15k trade in value. Putting your payment around 650/month.

I thought to myself that kind of payment CANT be right can it?

Kind of turned me off of the whole thing..though I really would like to trade for a new STI.

The BRZ just sits parked because I cant fit my family in it. Kind of depressing lol.

Let it sit and enjoy it as a husband and wife only car :)

+$15k on BRZ
-$5k left on loan
-$40k on STI Limited, or dealer markup of a 'base' STI
-$4k on state fees + dealer fees
=~$34k owed

$34k on loan divided over 5 years of payments is $567/month without considering interest rates, 3% interest bumps you up to $611/month, 6% is $657, 12% is $756 (yes people do get loans at that rate).

If you can find an STI for base price at $35k, offload the 86 for $18k (assuming trade in was undervalued) and get financing at 3% and avoid significant dealer fees you're looking at owing about $25k on loan which would still be $455/month.

Google 'auto loan calculator' and it's an easy tool to see if the numbers are straight up, you could probably do it on your phone in the dealership when they start throwing numbers around.

buy a g37

This - I always loved the saying. "You can't fake math."


Numbers are numbers.