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- - Scion FR-S Steering Problems (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=109622)

Scion FR-S Steering Problems

Hey everyone, I have a 2013 FR-S that I bought brand new way back in 2012. I have done quite a bit of modifications to it over the last 4 years and have been able to quickly diagnose and fix any problems I have experienced along the way. I haven't driven my car a whole lot this year but the times I have driven it, I notice that the steering doesn't feel like it used to. We all know how the car feels when giving steering input. My problem is that now, the car feels almost unpredictable when giving input (I drive backroads frequently and reach speeds of 80+ in corners). It's almost "laggy" if I can describe it that way.

So, when I am entering a corner and start to turn, it's like I can physically feel all the parts in the car turning, but then the actual car itself follows afterwards, instead of immediately. When I swerve back and forth I feel the parts moving but the car sways behind that input, somewhat how older cars feel when you just turn the wheel back and forth while driving, but with more of a pull to it.

Also, when hitting higher highway speeds (75-80+) the car wants to wander around the lane slightly, and definitely is very noticeable at 120+. I have never been iffy about taking my car up to that speed, but now it just does not feel safe. I am certain something is wrong with my car, but I just don't know what it could be.

I thought maybe it something in the suspension or tires at first. I checked all tire pressures and they are fine (EDIT: Tires are Hankook V12 Evo2's and have less than 3k miles on them). I am running BC type BR coilovers and I checked them out and they seem to be fine. Sway bar end-links were all tight.

Next thought is possibly alignment or something physically wrong with the steering system?

Any input on this would be much appreciated. Thanks!

https://c4.staticflickr.com/9/8566/2...cceddf7f_h.jpg

https://c8.staticflickr.com/9/8060/2...6259cef6_h.jpg

My first thought would be blown struts. Have you checked for oil leaks around the coil overs? Take the car in for an alignment check, explain what you are feeling and have them check over the suspension thoroughly. Sometimes it's easier to spot the issue with the car on the drive on hoist at ride height. On a side note, what trunk spoiler are you running ? It looks sick!

Someone else mentioned similar strange feelings running the same tires: www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=107534

So, tires maybe?

I have the exact same symptoms after changing to the Hankook v12s, I'm positive that they are the culprit. I'm trying to get rid of these as soon as possible, I'm around 3-4k miles on them also.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=107534

Edit: ^^ Whoops, hey thats me! haha

Hi ya,Kuzuri ............:)

Good looking machine you have there.

80 mph on Wisconsin backroads ...... I hope you don't catch a deer ...... :eyebulge:

What's wrong with your car?

Maybe waaaaay too much camber ......:D

You might try upping the pressure in the tires about 5 psi, to see if that reduces the squeaminish.

Like mentioned, it may be time for a good front end check up ...... before you toss the tires ..... ;)

humfrz

Where are you in wisconsin that you have actual corners?
Looking for more places to go other than Spring Green..

Jack up the car and try to move the wheel to see if there is any play. Possibly tie rods, or the soft sidewall hankooks.
Any changes since it last felt ok?

BTW what over fenders are those?

No input on problem, just sayin

Sharp car!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuzuri (Post 2729657)

I haven't driven my car a whole lot this year but the times I have driven it, I notice that the steering doesn't feel like it used to. We all know how the car feels when giving steering input. My problem is that now, the car feels almost unpredictable when giving input (I drive backroads frequently and reach speeds of 80+ in corners). It's almost "laggy" if I can describe it that way.

I recently went from the stock rims and tires to 18x9.5 rims with PSS tires and immediately had the same result. The wider front rims and tires killed the feel of the steering and made it mushy. I had read that it would affect it, but it affected it a lot more than I was expecting.

Wide tires and camber. Also this is in the wrong section.

Does your car possibly fall into that recent recall for power steering?

Quote:

Originally Posted by extrashaky (Post 2730237)

Odd. I have 17x9 wheels and 245 PSS. No mushiness at all, in fact, the opposite due to the PSS' stiff sidewalls.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trust86 (Post 2729666)

Bushings?

I can look into this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FTA_Dave (Post 2729685)

The coilovers seem fine. I checked them for oil and loose bolts when I had the car jacked up. I mean I guess it's still possible. I have about 40k on the suspension. The spoiler is the Speedhunters KM4SH piece. Thanks!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clipdat (Post 2729879)

Someone else mentioned similar strange feelings running the same tires: www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=107534

So, tires maybe?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spacemane969 (Post 2729908)

I have been feeling like the tires might be the cause. I have been running the same size Evo 1's for 3 years on the same size wheels and never had a problem. I didnt drive my car hard this year before getting new tires so I cant say for sure that the issue wasn't there before switching to the Evo2's but I definitely have noticed it since switching.

Do you think Hankook would do anything for us if we brought a few people to their attention that are experiencing these issues with the same tire?

Quote:

Originally Posted by humfrz (Post 2729922)

Definitely not my camber. I have had the same set up for 3 years without a problem. My car has done drift days, drag strip passes, and general hooning and runs on the backroads. This problem is very recent and unrelated to the fitment of my wheels. I added an extra 5 psi to the tires when I checked them and it didn't help. Thank you for the suggestion though!

Quote:

Originally Posted by DasFrs (Post 2730194)

Where are you in wisconsin that you have actual corners?
Looking for more places to go other than Spring Green..

I live in Boscobel, so you're not too far. Spring Green isn't a bad area though. You can head out towards Lone Rock/Avoca and hit that road that goes next to the River, or you could go out to Gotham and cut over to Muscoda. The road I am talking about that I hit 80mph through corners runs between Woodman and Prairie Du Chien. The first half is kind of rough but the second half you can really fly through the corners.

Quote:

Originally Posted by swarb (Post 2730207)

Jack up the car and try to move the wheel to see if there is any play. Possibly tie rods, or the soft sidewall hankooks.
Any changes since it last felt ok?

BTW what over fenders are those?

I tried this and didn't notice anything wrong. The only physical change from when it felt okay has been tires. I'm just not sure if maybe a certain bump could have knocked something out o maybe the coilovers have just gone bad :iono:

The over fenders are from Garage Vary. Very subtle but add a little bit extra. I'm happy with them for now!

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichardsFRS (Post 2730213)

No input on problem, just sayin

Sharp car!

Thank you! :party0030:

Quote:

Originally Posted by extrashaky (Post 2730237)

You have mushy response from wider front wheels? That's odd. I have run a square setup the entire time I've had the car and found the opposite to be true. My car is snappy and has quick turn in and sometimes gets a little too squirrely when sliding.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hot-Lava_Dave (Post 2730332)

Does your car possibly fall into that recent recall for power steering?

I didn't know there was one? More info?

@Kuzuri I had those tires once on a previous car and they felt like crap, similar feeling to what you are describing, with a noticeable drop in grip feel when driving the car

The power steering recall does not apply to the US

@Kuzuri It's probably the tires. The most common complaint I read about the v12 evo2's are that they have squirmy/soft sidewalls.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuzuri (Post 2730528)

I can look into this.

The coilovers seem fine. I checked them for oil and loose bolts when I had the car jacked up. I mean I guess it's still possible. I have about 40k on the suspension. The spoiler is the Speedhunters KM4SH piece. Thanks!

I have been feeling like the tires might be the cause. I have been running the same size Evo 1's for 3 years on the same size wheels and never had a problem. I didnt drive my car hard this year before getting new tires so I cant say for sure that the issue wasn't there before switching to the Evo2's but I definitely have noticed it since switching.

Do you think Hankook would do anything for us if we brought a few people to their attention that are experiencing these issues with the same tire?

Definitely not my camber. I have had the same set up for 3 years without a problem. My car has done drift days, drag strip passes, and general hooning and runs on the backroads. This problem is very recent and unrelated to the fitment of my wheels. I added an extra 5 psi to the tires when I checked them and it didn't help. Thank you for the suggestion though!

I live in Boscobel, so you're not too far. Spring Green isn't a bad area though. You can head out towards Lone Rock/Avoca and hit that road that goes next to the River, or you could go out to Gotham and cut over to Muscoda. The road I am talking about that I hit 80mph through corners runs between Woodman and Prairie Du Chien. The first half is kind of rough but the second half you can really fly through the corners.

I tried this and didn't notice anything wrong. The only physical change from when it felt okay has been tires. I'm just not sure if maybe a certain bump could have knocked something out o maybe the coilovers have just gone bad :iono:

The over fenders are from Garage Vary. Very subtle but add a little bit extra. I'm happy with them for now!

Thank you! :party0030:

You have mushy response from wider front wheels? That's odd. I have run a square setup the entire time I've had the car and found the opposite to be true. My car is snappy and has quick turn in and sometimes gets a little too squirrely when sliding.

I didn't know there was one? More info?

Woops, just realized that was for right-hand drive vehicles only my bad. Hope you get it sorted man!

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkR171 (Post 2730342)

Odd. I have 17x9 wheels and 245 PSS. No mushiness at all, in fact, the opposite due to the PSS' stiff sidewalls.

Don't get me wrong. It corners like it's on rails. The stiff sidewalls and extra grip see to that.

I'm talking about the feel of the steering. With the stock tires, the steering was so responsive to input that I almost felt like I could think what I wanted to do, and the car did it. Now, with that extra area in the contact patch that also happens to be stickier, it's slightly less responsive and takes just a tiny bit more effort, and the feel of the road through the steering wheel is deadened a little. In normal turns in normal traffic, the tires are resisting the turn enough that the entire steering system starts to feel more elastic than stock. It probably wouldn't make a big difference at higher speeds on a track, but I don't track my car. I'm going by the way it feels driving around town.

The difference is very small, but because the front end seemed to be balanced on a knife's edge to begin with, that tiny difference is the same as falling over a cliff. I think I'm going to drop back to a staggered setup to see if I can get back some of that responsiveness that made the car so much fun to drive around town. I don't like the way the extra wide rims look on the front of the car anyway.

Quote:

Originally Posted by swarb (Post 2730561)

@Kuzuri It's probably the tires. The most common complaint I read about the v12 evo2's are that they have squirmy/soft sidewalls.

I probably won't be driving my car a whole lot for the rest of the year so I might just pick up some new tires next season. Thanks!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuzuri (Post 2730528)

Do you think Hankook would do anything for us if we brought a few people to their attention that are experiencing these issues with the same tire?

Highly doubt it but its worth a shot. Im sure the only option is to see if there is some sort of satisfaction guarantee like michelin has. Strangely many people run the tire without issues.

Did you ever Find the issue Im staring to have that issue on my car 2014 model got it new, Ive been all over the suspension can’t find anything wrong , Im suspecting is my steering I even change my steering rack bushings for whitleine thinking oem were worn out but no change I feel like a dead spot on the steering at high speed cornering Car has been on the aligment shop several times usually when im taking a freeway ramp around 75 the car tents to turn more. Of my steering input in middle of the corner is not oversteer, or just feels like an extra steering input something wrong with the steering at least thats my feel, I have hankook before v12 and rs-3 also falken azenis and now im on dunlop direzzaIII 225 45 17 rim is 17x8 Ive just start experiencing this issue a few months back im on stock sachs suspension from a and spc camber bolts.Im gonna add the front sway bar whiteline 20mm to see if that helps , for years Ive been running only the rear swaybar from whiteline and stock at front I like how the car felt but now I will try the front hopefully that will give me more stability and not too much understeer, if you find your issue that will be nice to know , also what swaybars do you have ？I hope is not my steering rack or motor whats giving me issues I do track the car fairly often nothin I can feel on the track only street driving like freeway ramps

How's the alignment?

Maybe steering rack bushings as well... didn't like the factory steering rack bushings from first time put stickier than stock tires on it and solid aluminum bushings with tighter toleranced bolts were one of the first upgrades I ever did to it 8 years ago. Still feels tighter and more direct than a brand new factory car.