Velox vs Raceseng Camber Plates
 

Been toying with the idea of adding camber plates to my car. The -1.5 from camber bolts just isn't doing it for me anymore. I have the SPC bolt on the bottom, I know I can add the crash bolt to the upper lobe, but this isn't a route I really want to take.

Just wondering if anyone has had any experience with the Velox/ft86SF plates. I know the Raceseng plates are top notch and add caster adjustment. I just don't think I will ever adjust caster. Is the approx $300 price difference worth it if all I'm doing is adjusting camber?

The car is a 1x per month autoX and maybe 2x a year track day.

Thanks In Advance.

They both are fine.
I bought raceseng due reasons like 1) i'm buying it once, why not get something offering most, even if i don't need it right now; 2) i liked customisation options for broad range of coilovers if/when i'll switch. But 1) no caster adjustment on velox's .. that might be also good point, as one less thing to fail/stronger construction; 2) price difference really is significant enough for many, not just few dollars less. Hmm, though then again, if budget matters a lot, why not go with camber bolts & slotting struts?

Go with whichever by whatever reasons matter more to you, they both should do the job and are quality products. Imho no need to go for lengthy discussion of why one may be slightly better and by what slightly worse then another.

Racerxfab makes front lower control arm that has camber and caster adjustment. Might be a better solution for you

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The Raceseng plates do both for less $$$

I see 2 on the Racer-X site:

http://racerxfabrication.com/frs-brz...r-control-arms

http://racerxfabrication.com/frs-brz...r-control-arms

One is $550, one is $680. I'd say they are both within the range of the Raceseng plates. Not sure if there would be any advantage in going for these instead of camber plates.



The Raceseng plates only actually give 1 degree of positive caster over stock. I know this can be an advantage in auto-x, not sure about the track. Not really sure how much of a difference just 1 degree of positive caster actually makes, though.

Both are supposed to be great quality, but the Raceseng is basically twice the price. I would say the only reason the Raceseng may be worth it to you is because you are doing monthly auto-x events. Assuming you care about competing, not just going for fun, etc.

Im going to to do plates over Front LCA because I like having the adjustability. I would like front camber to be around -2 for Daily Driving and bump it up to around -3 on autocross days. Plates are quick and easy to adjust.

Its not about being competitive, I'm not on that level. I just want the car to behave the way I want it to when doing runs.

I will probably get the Raceseng plates. I don't need caster adjustment now, but maybe later. Im all about having something I can grow into and doing it right the first time.

I make my purchase next month and check back in to let ya know which one I went with. Along with a review.

Thanks Everyone.

Keep in mind that changing camber will definitely change toe, so you might want to have a way to accurately measure toe so you don't end up driving around with toe daily.

You'd be better off with -3* of camber and zero front toe than -2* and some toe for daily driving tire wear.

IMO the big advantage to Raceseng is adaptability to different suspension packages.

If you're not planning on changing dampers or spring sizes in the future save the $$$ and try the Velox.

Well, Velox's has listed compatibility with B6/8/14/16 Bilsteins, V1/3 KWs, RCE Zero &2, stock, ST, Konis Yellow, so imho versatility wise Velox camplates are fine too.

I can't speak to Velox but have ran Eibach's that were integrated to my R2s and Raceseng's. Camber is super important on the FRS/BRZ, that alone is likely worth the difference. Raceseng's quality is top notch, all the component parts are of the highest grade. If you want a total solution, Raceseng is the way to go. If you're budget conscious, I'm sure the Velox ones will do enough for the money.

OEM top hats are also compatible with those too.

Contact @Racecomp Engineering for their camber plate option.

:iono: Did you mean caster?

No, not at all. It's camber that's the most important for the front struts, big improvements to grip during cornering will be found as you move past 2.5 degrees.

He may have been talking about caster, but I will take the ideal amount of camber over the ideal amount of caster any day of the week.

Thank you @CounterSpace Garage. I forgot @Racecomp Engineering had a street camber plate option. I will shoot them an email to see if they are compatible with my Bilstein B8's.

Been a huge fan of RCE. Quality products that actually produce on the Track. I have the Tarmac Springs and could not be happier.

BTW just ordered my first of many products from CSG, Winmax W3's. Looking forward to doing more business with y'all.

CSG and RCE are a huge asset to this community. We thank you.:clap:

Sounds good. You were in luck. They were the last set of W3s on the shelf for another couple of weeks. We'll be getting another batch in soon. Thank you!

I'm not debating camber, obviously that's more impactful for corning contact area on a tire, I'm just saying proper caster set-up on this car is pretty key. Camber is certainly more important.

I purchased the Velox ones. They are a great product. No problems running stock dampers or the switch to RCE Tarmac 2 coilovers.

Both are great options in my opinion :thumbsup:.

Forgive me if I sound dumb, but what if I rotate the velox camber plate 120 degree and installed it that way, wouldn't I gain camber and caster at the same time?

Hypothetically yes, the Velox plates are relatively symmetrical and rotating to achieve additional caster looks possible.

However after looking at the trigonometry you're basically ending up with instead of 100% camber adjustment a ratio of about 1:1.7 camber:caster gain. These aren't real numbers but ballpark you'd go from gaining say 2 degrees of camber to just 1.2 degrees while picking up 1.7 degrees of caster.

Most people feel that this car has adequate caster from the factory, it's not a Miata or S2k (and I presume Honda FWD cars) that comes with low caster (5 degrees or less I believe) and benefits by increasing the caster. OE comes to about 6 degrees and the Raceseng plates allow for an additional degree approximately.

Contrary to the Miata and S2k, with a Macpherson strut front in this car has a stronger need for static negative camber because it doesn't gain camber under compression like the double wishbone suspension cars mentioned above.

For reference, my camber plates give me -2.5 degrees, the last event I ran I had them maxed out at -3.6 degrees of camber per side (I also have camber bolts), and I believe my car would have been better if I had more camber in it. There's no way I'm even going to think about sacrificing camber for caster at this point.

I've read it's a common tradeoff on Miata and S2k's to balance your caster/camber, but they have a completely different suspension design that has different strengths and weaknesses from the FR-S/BRZ.

tl;dr The 86 with an additional -2 degrees of camber over stock will be significantly better (more grip) than the 86 with an additional 2 degrees of caster. By rotating the plates you are sacrificing camber for caster, likely to the point where you are negatively affecting your performance by not having enough camber for your front tires to operate properly during cornering.

Thanks for the detail explanation!

Well, I installed the velox camber plates this past weekend, alone with koni shocks and eibach springs which lowered the car about 1-1.5". I had the camber plates adjusted all the way in for max camber, only to discover that will result in the top end link studs rubbing the frame and binding in turning. I had to dial the camber back a little untill the end links clear the frame, and I ended up only gaining a little bit of camber :(

Anyone have any suggestions on how I can get more camber? I did a search and only found one similar case like mine, and the person hammered the frame in a little. Don't think that I want to do that..

Camber bolts.

Option 1: OE camber bolt is a small (14mm) bolt in the upper hole to replace the big one, push hub in, tighten, bit sloppy but cheap and legal for certain classification systems

Option 2: Look up camber bolts, every company sells you a 16mm eccentric bolt for the upper hole, this works, I got about an extra -1 degree out of it. I believe more adjustability comes from buying a 14mm eccentric bolt and putting it in the lower hole then taking the bolt that was in the lower hole and putting it in the upper hole. You can also buy both eccentric bolts and install both.

http://www.spcalignment.com/index.ph...tion&pid=81280

http://www.spcalignment.com/index.ph...tion&pid=81260

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18865

Thanks. I have the bolts in the lower spot already, will try putting another set in the top too. My tires are already very close to the strut however, so I'm worrying the camber bolts on top might result in rubbing.

What wheels and tires are you running?

225/45/17 on 17x9 et 35. Will switch to 245/40/17 next set

With a 17x9+35 you shouldn't have too much of a problem clearing the spring perch. I know people running 17x9+42 that were ok before they switched to coils for performance reasons. Dial in what camber you can from the plate, and get the rest from camber bolts.

You might have issues maxing out camber through the strut slots/bolts with 245/40/17 tires depending on how wide they run. I would recommend you get adjustable top hats to avoid rubbing.

That's the issue I'm facing. I have the velox top hat but I can only gain a little camber as more camber will put my end link rubbing the frame.

http://imgur.com/Ifwap48
http://imgur.com/KT8g5Li

I have the koni shocks insert and lowered about 1".

I suppose fixing one problem creates another. I'm not sure what else you can do other than get coilovers with smaller spring perches :(

Maybe try the ground control system so you can trim down the spring perch?
http://www.ground-control-store.com/...ion.php/II=923

What kind of camber were you at when it started to rub?

I'll take some photos later. Haven't have the alignment done yet as I just put on the shocks. But from what I can see visually, it's not enough. I will know for sure next week, what exact number I have now

Install the bottom crash bolt that the camber bolt replaced on top and push the hub in, The camber bolt + smaller crash bolt should give you up to -2.4 of camber, then add as much camber as you can from the top hats before it starts rubbing.

We run our shop car (factory shocks, RCE yellows) at around -2.8 of negative camber and do not run into this issue. Are you doing something odd with camber bolts as well to cause the rubbing?

We've had other guys with our kit maxing them out to -3+ and have not let us know of any rubbing either.

Thanks,
Eric

I only rubbed at full lock at maxed out setting on camber plates. I solved the issue by not maxing out on the camber plates and use camber bolts in addition for more camber. Running around 3.2 now and no issues anymore.

I wasn't sure if it was better to start a new thread or add on to this old one. So I figured I'd try this first.

I am a new owner of a 2020 86 and I will be doing moderate tracking 2-3 times a year (HPDE and possibly 86Cup in the future). I will not be installing coilovers or lowering springs, as the car needs to remain something that my wife will be happy to ride in!

I am most definitely on the cheap side, but I also budget my expenditures and am someone who would rather spend more money once and do things right the first time.

So with all of that said, given my experience with tire wear tracking my previous car, I have camber plates on my short list of items for the car. As I am not someone who runs a dozen track events a year along with the fact that I have an automatic I will never be competitive with the top 86Cup drivers. So while the Raceseng CasCam looks like what would be the best setup for someone who focuses more heavily on being competitive, the question I keep asking myself is does the extra $300 make sense for me.

Any insight from you guys would be greatly appreciated!

You might loose bump travel with camber plates. What number are you shooting for?

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Not sure I'll need all of it, but I'd like to have at least -3 degrees available.

Both are pretty darn good with coilovers, but with stock shocks, get the Velox plates.

You lose bump travel when using the Raceseng plates and their upper spring perch on stock shocks (not coilovers though..they are fantastic with coilovers).

- Andrew