Well if this car comes in at 2700-2800 lbs with a 2.0l 180-200 hp it's not going to be fast(by today's standards for the price). I don't expect it to be priced at 18.5k either but I hope it doesn't start above 21k in base form.

I didn't factor in the rising costs associated with the disaster. From the looks of thigns, Toyota, Fuji, Honda, and isuzu are all going to have to rebuild their plants as this radiation leak will encompass them. Japanese cars are going to skyrocket in price like they did in the 90s, which sadly led to the end of the JDM sports car market for a time. Let's hope the same doesn't happen again. the yen/dollar exchange rate is looking terrible.

Sorry, but when this car was design to be "fast"? Tada-san stated that this car gonna be going "back to basic. You control the car, not car control you."

I gonna bring out Miata. New MSRP is looking just below $30k and this thing is only pushing 167hp/140tq. Yes, Miata weight +-2600lbs to even that power/weight ratio.

Which sounds better? Miata or FT86?

I was replying to OldSkool saying the engine would be a weak engine if it started at 18.5k. And a miata doesn't start at 30k unless you live in one of those other countries.

http://www.mazdausa.com/MusaWeb/conf...ip=0&zip=30044

\

No, the currently planned engine output of 200hp does not make this car slow. Its not even underpowered at that weight/power ratio.

You know what an SR-5 AE86 is and how it differs from the GT-S? At sub $20k the car would literally come with a slug of a motor, not even 1% engineered for performance, would have a softer cheaper suspension, drum rear brakes, etc. Basically all looks and no umph.

Damn kids.

Miata GT (hard top) base price is just lil below $30k... either way, 167hp car for $23.1k~$28.5k... idk

We all have different ideas of a really good power/weight ratio and for me it has to be 12lbs/1hp or lighter. I prefer between 10-12 lbs/hp not a supercar fighting 5-9 lbs/hp. Another thing that I consider is torque to weight ratio as that is a even better measure for a daily driver IMHO. My rsx is 20lbs/1tq as my car weighs 2800 lbs with 140 tq and I can barely feel it too. I have a feeling the FT might put out the same torque to weight ratio as my rsx.

^its said to have 100lbs less and 60ft/lbs more than your acura. Why are you bitchin?

(Not 100% fact)

I don't see them getting 200 lb/ft out of it, especially if they are going to try to increase the rev limit. That would be freakin sweet though. :thumbup:

Why is it that you always assume I am bitching? And your assumptions seems way off IMHO. There is no way a 2.0 liter N/A engine is going to make 200 lb-ft without F/I.

And what is up with how defensive you guys get?

When/what car skyrocketed in the 90's?!?! I remember sticker on a new Supra TT was in the upper 40K! All the flagships were twin turbo; Z, 3000GT, Supra; thats why they were more expensive.

It was the tougher emission laws in the mid 90's (ultra low emmission/low emission/zero emission) that put an end to the JDM super cars.

Found this on another forum

"The first calculator from the Bureau of Labor Statistics states that $37,000 had the same buying power in 1994 as $55k has in 2011.

So a 1994 MKIV Supra with a base price of $37,000 would cost around $55K in today's dollars.


Actually I think the 37K base price from your original link was "estimated price". Here's a window sticker for a '95 TT version -- A whopping 48.7K"
http://www.mkiv.com/specifications/s...bo_sticker.jpg

According to the same calculator, that particular car would cost over $76k today!

*edit*

Also according to that calculator, the 1993 240sx base model coupe would cost $23k today.

Yup, GTR territory. The Supra's fate has also been sealed thanks to Fast and the Furious. :bs::thumbdown:

Also, according to that calculator, a 1991 Celica ST Sport Coupe would cost under $22k today! Let's hope Toyota uses that calculator. LOL

I believe it is very possible. Boxers have a tendency to be have a little more torque compared to inlines. And on top of that throw on (hopefully) toyota/yamaha heads with variable valve timing on both cams, direct injection, and a compression ratio that demands 91 octane. I believe it would be close. But that's just my theory.

Id like to see levels from starter with cloth and lower powered engine starting at 21k, and for the high end engine with full leather and bells and whistles to top out at 30k. Keep up with the Genesis and they will get loads of sales and it brings a wide group of car lovers in no matter if you can only afford 20k or up to 30k.

That is a very important detail too. Many of the guys here are comparing the new FB to engines that use premium grade. Is there a possibility that it could be regular? I'd guess yes. Heck it could be designed for 85 octane! That would be better IMHO in that it would leave more room for turbocharging :iono:. But would make it worse for N/A. Plus with the price of premium, I'd wager a bet on regular being far more popular especially at this price point.

in my area, premium is only 20 center more per gallon than regular. it should be fairly easy to expect 30+ mpg on the highway, so running premium is no problem. i could just about run 100 octane at $8/gallon and come out ahead compared to DDing my truck, ha.

People freak out about the price of premium way to easily. 20 cents a gallon more. You fill up you 20 gallon tank and its a whooping 4 dollars more.

And yes I would hope this motor as efficient as possible from the factory requiring 91 octane.

Certainly I agree. But the price of premium was fixed in the past because it was profitable. As the price for gasoline goes up the price very well could split. And if people complain about 20 cents more per gallon they'll flip if the gap gets bigger. Which reminds me I thought it had changed? :hmm: maybe I misheard?

I suppose I'm just nitpicking possible issues now :(.

170 out of the 2.0L if they tune the living shit out of it and go nuts with a high CR and direct injection. And to get that torque level it would be pretty high in the rpm range, and it's hp would be pretty sweet too.

Torque is very, very, closely connected to displacement.

not if it's a scion here in the states...no haggle pricing.

cylinder layout has next to nothing to do with torque production. however, i agree with the rest of what you said. :)

sounds good to me!

150 would be good enough for how heavy this car is going to be.

I think too much emphasis is being placed on the engine performance by most people. Rest assured, the engine will be plenty powerful for the car its going to be in. Enough to have fun in factory form. And by the look's of the G's concept, along with Toyota taking input from shops and personalities such as Tsuchiya (who is a huge aftermarket supporter, obviously), we can be rest assured the car is being produced with the aftermarket in mind.

I'm going to bump this because I've been thinking a bit more on this.

What exactly in this car is going to make it expensive?

Beyond the cylinder heads/D4-S, it's got less stuff in it than an Impreza right?

So why are we predicting a $23k-$26k car?

Plus as I've been looking between US and Canadian sites, I'm getting pissed at how much we get screwed on car prices in Canada (even before the taxes).

Impreza example:

Bigger car, 2.5L AWD, 5 speed, 4 doors, more stuff.

No fancy heads or 6 speed. Suspension components are more about tuning than manufacture. Brakes for a 3100 lbs car should be sufficient for the (hopefully much) lighter FT86. 16" rims.

Now the dollars (this hurts...)

In the US the Impreza starts at $17,495 USD
In Canada the Impreza starts at $20,995 CAD

But wait! Isn't the Canadian dollar worth more than the US dollar now? Yes it is. To in Canada the base Impreza starts at the equivalent to $22,163 USD!!! WTF!?! Almost $5k more for the same car???

Either way, why would the FT86 end up costing $8k more than an Impreza, for only trading the 5 speed/AWD for a 6 speed/RWD and better heads?

Lower volume production and more development cost maybe? Seeing how a civic si is already 22 k, I think 23 would be pretty good, but of course if they can beat that price more power to them.

LSD? R&D? high performance tires? sport suspension?

iono, we don't even know what the car's specs yet.

Yes. The Impreza is based on a high volume, shared platform that's several iterations in.

Also there's supply and demand... Since the FRS is pretty (the 2012 Impreza is an improvement, but still ugly), I expect it to be sought after. For that reason, and because I'd prefer a sleeper, I almost wish they hadn't made it so good looking.

It is still a prototype so we have no idea what the production version will look like.

I'm just getting impatient...

Anyone want to take a shot at why Canadian car buyers need to bring Vaseline when we go to a dealer, given the value of our dollar?

Its not like the American dollar is doing any better...

$17,495 USD
$22,163 USD (Canadian price converted to USD)

Same car.

Before ridiculous Canadian tax.

The car companies are also trying to say that some safety or anti-theft component is different between the US and Canadian models so the US ones are 'unsafe' to import (legal issue, but total and complete BS!). Trying to prevent cross-border shopping to prop up thieving Canadian dealers.

(Not just Subaru...)

Watch. Curve ball~~

@27k Base price. Scion.

LOL

Just did a quick check with Toyota Mexico vs. Toyota USA....the base corolla in Mexico is $3k more expensive.

Edit: Toyota Canada and Toyota USA's base prices are basically exact. Accounting for the difference in dollars now, you pay ~$1,500 more for that Corolla. How much is the sales tax in Canada, btw? Is it setup different for each...uh, territory? (dunno what you call 'em), or is it a flat nationwide Sales tax?

It's errr... confusing. We used to have separate national (5% GST) and Provincial (PST, varies) taxes, but lately they've been combining them into 'harmonized' (HST) taxes. But not all of the provinces have done this. And oil-rich Alberta only pays the 5% GST. In my province it's 12% (plus a ton of hidden enviro fees on cars). Also we have an included (hidden so people forget) carbon tax, as well as a Translink tax`(technically a private transit company that can tax us, probably illegal but hidden so people forget) on gas. ($1.408/L as of yesterday near me)

What's bullshit is the fake safety and security differences that the companies claim to try to make it illegal to import a new US car into Canada (I'm 40 minutes from a border crossing). Thus the extra $5k for an Impreza. I've heard it's even more with diesel trucks and luxury cars...

Also buying an out of province car requires a government inspection to be insured in the new province. Even if it's brand new. This is so I don't drive 5 hours to Alberta to save 7% on tax.

If I'm a bit ranty about this it's because we had our election today, and I've been reminded how much I hate government regs and politicians ALL DAY...

Wow....thanks for reminding me that its great to live in the U.S.A. I DO NOT want your government....at all.

In Tennessee we pay:
9.825% in sales tax
Then a county wheel tax upon registering the car (if your county even has a wheel tax). Mine was like..$75 last year.
$10 fee (Tax) for going through emissions....
And like $30 registration fee (Tax)

Yours sounds much more....err, much less desirable.

The hilarious thing about the companies trying to ban new imports on super-minor safety and security is the flip side: I own a JDM Supra, it is provincially inspected and insurable as soon as I pass emissions.

You would think that the steering wheel ON THE WRONG FREAKIN' SIDE would be an issue. Not at all. But a little electronic difference in the immobilizer of new cars. Trouble. Go figure.

I can't really complain too loudly due to the availability of inexpensive JDM goodness.

:eyebulge: I thought California was bad...I flipped when I saw the tax on a 775 dollar notebook I'm planning to buy was 72 dollars.

Buy online.

Actually, I think it is not that hard to import cars from USA into Canada, whether new or old. Transport Canada published a guideline about how to import cars into Canada, and here is a website that I googled that lists the steps: http://www.importcartocanada.info/

With the latest currency rate, I would see there would be a flock of people who will go to US to import cars. I know my colleague did that a while back (2009?) and they form a team of people to buy Subaru's (outbacks, tribecas, and others I think) and import them into Canada. According to him, he saved about 5K from the overall process.

Here is the website from Transport Canada:

http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/roadsafety/s...-index-445.htm