Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB

- BRZ First-Gen (2012+) — General Topics (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=23)

- - the frs/brz is already plenty fast. (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81853)

There ya go fixed that for ya.

Quote:

Originally Posted by alan.chalkley (Post 2118924)

After owning and driving many cars including V8s , the BRZ with upgraded tires is faster overall on the road.
Taking into account it's size , braking , cornering and wet roads.
Hot hatch FWDs and V8s just can't get enough traction and that is just wasted horsepower.
Yes on a dry racetrack the 86/BRZ needs more power and grip , but what % of driving is track time?

I guess a lot of folks here spend time drag racing minivans, ttearing down tracks at 10 / 10ths and street racing their buddies. if you can learn how to drive a car keeping its revs up in the power and, the frs/brz is plenty fast enough for almost any real world situation, merging into highways, taking that on/off ramp at 50-60, downshifting into a gap in traffic at 20 to 40 mph and such.

I used to drive and ride in tuned mustangs all the time and a best friend owns a coyote motor '12 mustang. and thats all nice and fun to play the auto equivalent of 'whip it out and see who's bigger' but in the real world, just as I said - these cars are plenty fast. not only that but they actually FEEL fast. your standard Lexus luxobarge can outrun most cars but inside you can be going 90 and feel like you're going 40.

Quote:

Originally Posted by perryair (Post 2118140)

now, if you are a regular at your local track or you spend a lot of time at the test and tune at your dragstrip this doesnt apply to you. and if you are a young carefree kid who doesn't have a career, wife or family yet i suppose this also doesn't apply to you.

but as an full fledged adult with adult things to do and family members to tend to and without time to oh, say, spend the day in jail on a reckless driving charge i can't possibly imagine how someone gets to the point where they think that the brz/frs is slow.

i've test driven both an FRS and BRZ and got to above legal speeds quite fast with both of them, thankyouverymuch. They feel just as fast/quick as my old 1995 mustang GT, which had 225 horsepower back then but probably carried an extra 500 lbs. (it also has just about the same quarter mile time and trap speed, as an aside) i managed to quickly get in front of traffic and do some things that probably were outside of the bounds of legal pretty easily.

in fact, id never call it fast but my current 100 and change horsepower honda civic has only made me feel uncomfortably slow in three merge into traffic situations over the span of five years of ownership.

so sure, a v6 camry has more horsepower! but try to use that extra horsepower in any meaningful way on a public road and odds are mister john q law will have something to say to you. not to mention that i doubt that more than a few percent of the driving populace has the driving skills necessary to even use half of the horsepower that any of their cars might have in the first place.

anyways, rant over..

It's easily faster than that Mustang you had. I used to blow the doors off those Mustangs with my MKIII Supra and the twins are a good second faster in the 1/4 than the Supra.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agent 86 (Post 2118714)

I traded my 2013 Golf-R for the BRZ huge difference in power and torque, even the trade value was $2k more than my out the door price for my BRZ, but I bought the BRZ anyway.

As much as I loved the R, I love everything about the BRZ even more. I'm more than satisfied with my purchase.

I don't understand why so many are dissatisfied with the "lack of HP/Tq", yet bought a twin anyway??? :iono:

BTW, I bought the BRZ over a new Audi S5.

Only thing I'm annoyed with is the torque dip, but I should have that handled soon.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eski (Post 2118757)

once you drive it for a little while you learn the feel of your rpms but i just cruise around somewhere between 3-5k and the throttle response is there. below 3k there is a major lack of power so just dont drive that low haha

What the hell man, you're racing the engine AND you're in the wrong part of the power band. Cruising RPM you want under 2K if you can get it (completely impossible on the highway), and if you want to really go, you want to be past the torque dip.

This only goes for a manual (though if you use the paddles on the auto you can pull it off to), but remember most people are driving crappy autos that don't downshift quick enough for fast overtaking. Downshift into the powerband and you'll be past most people before they can even react. Response, gearing, and the light weight make the car quite quick. If you don't get the jump though, that V6 Camry is going to make you look bad...

Quote:

Originally Posted by STV3 (Post 2118788)

We aren't arguing the fact that this car isn't a blast to drive at stock power levels. We also aren't saying it needs more power. OP said the car is fast and that is simply false.

I mean our cars are notorious for being slow lol

Only notorious for being slower than a V6 Mustang with shit build quality. If the Mustang didn't exist at the time this came out, people would be rightfully comparing it to a Miata like it was originally designed to take on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by totopo (Post 2118856)

uhhhh, what GTR do you have? The PGC10?

R32. It's great in a straight line and on open sweeping roads, but on a tight togue it feels ponderous, heavy and wide.

Quote:

Originally Posted by themadscientist (Post 2119043)

R32. It's great in a straight line and on open sweeping roads, but on a tight togue it feels ponderous, heavy and wide.

Ahhh OK I was confused by that statement too cuz over here in Murcia you say GTR and we think R35.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeM7 (Post 2118906)

It's probably because you are making a claim that is just plain not true. Your story simply doesn't add up. You are leaving something out. FRS, BRZ, and Mustang that's "not special" are in the same price range. It's common knowledge to all of us that have shopped around for sports cars.

You think I don't know that? You think I would say something like that here unless I was merely repeating what happened with me? I know many of you are far more knowledgeable with cars than I.

My BRZ was quoted to me at 25Gs, so I went and looked at a Mustang fastback (I owned a '65 many moons ago) just to see what they were going for. I was told by a salesman that it would go for "about 35."

It was a V8, but my original comment was: "Can it beat a six or eight cylinder Mustang (or whatever) in a straight line? Of course not - but then those cars are generally 10Gs+ more expensive."

So I'm only speaking from personal experience. Maybe it had a sauna in the trunk or something, I don't know. When I heard that price I didn't look at it too closely anymore, and the salesman didn't say it had anything special like supercharging, etc. I would think he would have, to try to impress me, if it had had it.

I looked at the examples on the link the other guy sent, and the lowest V8 I saw was about $32,300 (probably stripped.) So that alone is $7,300 more than what I paid for the BRZ. And maybe the one I looked at had more bells on it, I don't know. Once I heard the price I knew I wasn't going that high, so I left.

So that's it. Believe it or don't. But I don't think the nasty comments were warranted.

Quote:

Originally Posted by STV3 (Post 2119048)

Ahhh OK I was confused by that statement too cuz over here in Murcia you say GTR and we think R35.

Same thing with the R35. Try to step to a GTR, any GTR on the Ring with a BRZ; you would have to be high on crack. A tight mountain road, I'd be confident in the BRZ that I could make the R35 in the mirror disappear after a few corners.

Quote:

Originally Posted by themadscientist (Post 2119103)

lol

solo2:
FRS: CS
GT-R (09-11): SS
GT-R (12+): banned

Quote:

Originally Posted by themadscientist (Post 2119103)

Please tell me you're trolling... LOLOL

The r35 is like the 6th fastest car ever to go around the nurbergring (<--sp?)

LOLOL

Quote:

Originally Posted by BuzzR (Post 2119075)

Sorry, didn't think we were being particularly nasty. No offense intended. There is such a broad range of prices between a base V6 and loaded GT, and same goes for base FRS and loaded BRZ, that you can't really make a valid comparison without being more specific. I mean I could tell you there's an 8k difference between the FRS and BRZ based on my shopping experience and not be lying about it. Generally, the 3 are very comparable in price, but you are right it is possible to find a 10k difference if you are looking at a GT.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BuzzR (Post 2118710)

What part of, "... when I was pricing new cars last April the Mustang I looked at was 10Gs higher than the BRZ I ended up getting - and the Mustang wasn't anything special" do you not understand?

Perhaps I got a really good price on the BRZ, but that was the price difference for the car I looked at.

So why the hostility?

Because the V6 Mustang MSRP is under $24k, the new EcoBoost turbo is around $25k, almost a thousand dollars off the BRZ MSRP, the GT with the V8 is where you start to get away from the BRZ at $32k but that's only ~$5k more expensive, you only get to $10k (>$35k) on a Mustang if you're a bad negotiator, bad dealer, there's tons of unnecessary options, or they hacked the roof off.

The Mustang is absolutely a better performance/dollar value than the BRZ and I find it odd someone would argue otherwise. Don't get me wrong, the Toyobaru is the better car and I wouldn't touch a Mustang with a ten foot pole but your statements seem to not represent what we agree upon as reality.

:cheers:

Edit: Read your post above, your statement makes more sense but you have to realize that even the V6 Mustang is faster around most tracks than the BRZ, yes even the twisty bits.

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...n/viewall.html

And that's the old model that doesn't have independant rear suspension, the one I linked with the V6 should get around corners and lay down power even better.

that link to the article looks like a good read while procrastinating working

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeM7 (Post 2119386)

Okay. Thanks.

Maybe I should have been more specific, but I was just talking in generalities about the maneuverability of the two cars and relating a personal experience.

I'm 65 and remember the first Mustang, and the idea of a 6-cylinder Mustang has always been anathema to me.

So no harm done, and I'll try to be more specific next time.

:)

Quote:

Originally Posted by strat61caster (Post 2119636)

I've never been much of a negotiator, that's true. Don't have the attitude for it. As I say, I got the BRZ reduced from (if I remember correctly) about 28 to 25K (it was a new 2013), and then checked on the Mustang and was told about 35. I knew I couldn't go that high, so I didn't look closely at the details and options on it. And, as I have mentioned previously, the idea of a V6 Mustang is abhorrent to me.

Quote:

The Mustang is absolutely a better performance/dollar value than the BRZ and I find it odd someone would argue otherwise. Don't get me wrong, the Toyobaru is the better car and I wouldn't touch a Mustang with a ten foot pole but your statements seem to not represent what we agree upon as reality.

I totally agree regarding speed, but I thought the BRZ had the edge in maneuverability. I may be mistaken, but I've had some fun times on very winding roads at 80-90, so it's hard for me to imagine anything but a high dollar Vette or something like that that could outturn it.

Quote:

Edit: Read your post above, your statement makes more sense but you have to realize that even the V6 Mustang is faster around most tracks than the BRZ, yes even the twisty bits.

Again, I wasn't arguing about the speed, but I thought the BRZ was more maneuverable.

Anyway, I'm happy with mine, as it's a very beautiful and well built car, gets great mileage and it's peppy enough for me.

:cheers:

Quote:

Originally Posted by BuzzR (Post 2119811)

I may be mistaken, but I've had some fun times on very winding roads at 80-90, so it's hard for me to imagine anything but a high dollar Vette or something like that that could outturn it.

:cheers:

Picturing a 65 year old cornering at 90 mph puts a smile on my face. Gives me hope that when I reach that age I can still have tons of fun, as opposed to being like the OP stick in the mud. :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by DohcTor (Post 2119291)

Please tell me you're trolling... LOLOL

The r35 is like the 6th fastest car ever to go around the nurbergring (<--sp?)

LOLOL

Read the post again and see that I acknowledge that. :slap:

Ok, that's your lesson in reading comprehension. Next, critical thinking.

The Ring is a large track with a lot of room to move around and use all that power.
That big fat pig is not at home on a tight winding road. Example.

Look at it struggle to stretch its legs against a light car with less power.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqdcKBhe-4E"]TOUGE MAX R35 GTR vs RX-7 FD3S - YouTube[/ame]

The track is the track. The road is the road. Pick your battlefield. I drive like Sun Tzu.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeM7 (Post 2120066)

Picturing a 65 year old cornering at 90 mph puts a smile on my face. Gives me hope that when I reach that age I can still have tons of fun, as opposed to being like the OP stick in the mud. :)

Thanks!

The BRZ is part of my second childhood.

:)

"Fast" and "slow" are subjective. If you come from a 3000 hp Evo the triplets are slow. If you come from a 60 hp Volvo they are fast. Are they fast enough? Depends on who you ask.
The cars are an inanimate object; they don't need anything.

I came from a 400HP 135i, I didn't find the BRZ to be EXCEPTIONALLY slow. It just wasn't nearly as fast in a straight line so I had to make up for it in the corners and under braking.

Quote:

Originally Posted by perryair (Post 2118213)

sure. when was the last time you were in a public road and used whatever 'extra' power your car or setup has over a stock brz in a straight line?

In my old Z every single day I drove it. But then again I live out of the area of local towns, so my roads are usually empty.

I think these arguments about fast/slow are amusing. I mean in modern terms it's pretty dang slow. Almost every sports or hell, sporty, car from the last ten years is as fast or faster. I think they're fast enough. I would love an extra 50hp. I think I would do the I/h/e and tune and be happy. The special thing about these cars is the feel. It feels exactly like what I wanted my car to feel like. It nails the fun connected go-kart feeling, and that's worth the price in a DD for me.