Originally Posted by lMonsterl (Post 2089281)

Originally Posted by Tcoat (Post 2089271)

I know, I know but it just confuses the hell out of me!
Am I, Am I not?
Damn I can't sleep at night anymore!!

Same with the whole more power thing! Sometimes I am all 'this is just perfect" then others all like "well a bit more would be nice"

Doesn't change the fact that they will only make what earns them the cash.
At least there are loads and loads of options out there for anybody that must have more!

Originally Posted by tahdizzle (Post 2089475)

Kind of curious. how many ft86s have been sold, year to date?

Originally Posted by tahdizzle (Post 2089475)

Kind of curious. how many ft86s have been sold, year to date?

Originally Posted by strat61caster (Post 2089487)

On the topic of the engine, I'm personally impressed at what they've done, this engine meets worldwide emissions standards putting out 100hp/l naturally aspirated in an affordable package with economy car fuel economy, that's a goddamn feat of engineering not marketing fucking with you 'holding out for a better model'. If they didn't need D4-S they would have gladly left it off the car and knocked a thousand bucks+ off the sticker, but then we'd be down to the 160 hp range (at that point: Miata). And now we get Subaru Direct Injection turbos, this car was a slam dunk imo, it will be a long time before we see another one.

Originally Posted by juliog (Post 2089491)

Sounds like the twins already matched or surpassed the S2000 in lifetime US sales (66K).

2016 should bring a face-lift to the FR-S, same power but maybe revised standard equipment. Then, perhaps another 4 years on sale, to be replaced by a completely new car around 2020.

Originally Posted by Tcoat (Post 2088972)

Well said!
Not just a matter of credentials either though. There is also the whole "what are your priorities?" thing going on.
The guy wanting a wild weekend play toy should not be slamming the guy that wants a fuel efficient DD and vice versa. A forum such as this is the very worst place to determine if the "vast majority of owners" want "more power" as it consists of maybe 5% of them and we tend to be the group that leans that way to start with.
It has been said many, many times in threads already but the guys that think they just slap a on turbo on the assembly line and charge you $500 more just don't understand how the auto industry works. The companies exist to make a profit and if there is not enough payback they will not do anything just because a relatively small group wants it.
And for the last time - If they are planning a turbo/higher HP version it is already in the works!

Originally Posted by Tcoat (Post 2089271)

I know, I know but it just confuses the hell out of me!
Am I, Am I not?
Damn I can't sleep at night anymore!!

Same with the whole more power thing! Sometimes I am all 'this is just perfect" then others all like "well a bit more would be nice"

Doesn't change the fact that they will only make what earns them the cash.
At least there are loads and loads of options out there for anybody that must have more!

Originally Posted by Tromatic (Post 2089468)

If you read the story of the 86 development, they spent a whole lot of time trying to decide on how much engine it should have. The vast majority of owners are more than happy with the result. Willing to bet that this forum does not even represent 10% of the ownership. If you can turn a profit catering only to 10% of your customers, props to you.

It's a minor miracle this car got built at all. Shit people bitch about is amazing.

Originally Posted by Tcoat (Post 2088016)

He has marketing VP replies is what he has. Say what people want to hear but don't really say anything firm!
Being "open" to things does not for one second mean they will do them.
What I tool away from the comments was that there was a lot they may "like" to do but the repeated references to cost and "affordability" seem to cancel out the "likes".

Originally Posted by funwheeldrive (Post 2088379)

Revised suspension too. It has already been hinted that these cars will get a facelift soon. I'm thinking it will be for the MY16 .

Originally Posted by Shark_Bait88 (Post 2089547)

Reading comments on threads like this really speaks to the age, or perhaps the education, of many Toyobaru owners. There seems to be an incredibly poor understanding of how things work within major corporations, who is privy to what sort of information, and how new products are developed/introduced.

There's far too much unfounded speculation and incredibly generalized assumptions based off of societal misconceptions/stuff you might learn in movies.

Originally Posted by tahdizzle (Post 2089551)

You take that back! Frozen was an awesome movie!

Originally Posted by juliog (Post 2089517)

350z was arguably more successful. It sold close to 80K units in the US between 2002-2004, and another 80K between 2005-2008. Though the 370z failed spectacularly in terms of sales. It's sad that after 13 years, Nissan still hasn't followed up with a new lightweight RWD platform.

Originally Posted by tahdizzle (Post 2089551)

You take that back! Frozen was an awesome movie!

Originally Posted by strat61caster (Post 2089591)

You're right, Nissan's '03 and '04 sales outpaced Toyobaru's '13 & '14
http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2011/01...s-figures.html

36k & 30k vs. 26k & 21k

And it's likely that the '05 & '06 sales will outpace '15 & '16 but I would expect similar dropoffs. I'm not surprised at all by the Toyobaru's sales trends, the RX-8, S2000, and NC Miata all follow similar trends to the 350Z, and now add the Toyobaru to the dataset.

It's also arguable that Nissan has had any lightweight RWD platforms since the 240sx, at it's lightest the 350z clocks in ~3,200 lbs...

Edit: Also worth noting Nissan had more resources to dump into chassis, suspension, styling and interior as the powertrain is sourced from their trucks and larger sedans/utility vehicles which seemed to fit the American market at the time (muscle car strategy, big beefy utilitarian powertrain stuffed into a small body).

Originally Posted by Tcoat (Post 2089650)

Do you wanna build a snowmaaaan
Or ride our bikes around the haaaaalls
I think some company is overdue
I've started talking to
the pictures on the waaaaalls

Originally Posted by Shark_Bait88 (Post 2089547)

Reading comments on threads like this really speaks to the age, or perhaps the education, of many Toyobaru owners. There seems to be an incredibly poor understanding of how things work within major corporations, who is privy to what sort of information, and how new products are developed/introduced.

There's far too much unfounded speculation and incredibly generalized assumptions based off of societal misconceptions/stuff you might learn in movies.

Originally Posted by tahdizzle (Post 2089657)

/sarcasm off

That was a terrible movie!

Originally Posted by Tromatic (Post 2089699)

Jay Leno visited the Nissan HQ/whatever in SoCal and got a look at some drawings of the proposed "new" 240/60/whatever. Looked like hammered shit, and not at all based on the looks of the classic 240. How stupid do you have to be to have a 240 in the design shop and not go with that?

Originally Posted by Tcoat (Post 2089675)

Grand kids!
I have seen or at least heard that movie somewhere around 2,836 times!
I hear and see it in my sleep!
Just when I had almost forgotten it you had to bring it all flowing back!
Can't take it anymore...where did I put my rope and chair??????

Originally Posted by Shark_Bait88 (Post 2089547)

There's far too much unfounded speculation and incredibly generalized assumptions based off of societal misconceptions/stuff you might learn in movies.

Originally Posted by Braces (Post 2089810)

Well ... Let's look at other successful car manufacturers and a few of their model progressions.

Cayman ... Cayman S ... Cayman R
911 ... 911S ... 911C4 ...911C4S ...911GT3 ...911Turbo ... 911Turbo S
Corvette ... Corvette GS ... Z06 ... ZR1
Audi A () ...Audi S () ... Audi RS () .... R8 ... R8plus
Ford Mustang (6 cyl) ....Mustang 5.0 .... Shelby GT350 ... Shelby Supercharged
Mercedes ....Mercedes AMG
BMW ... BMW M
Ferrari 360 .... 360CS
Ferrari F430 ... F430 Scud

There are plenty of examples. Nothing wrong with starting out with a base model and then offering future upgraded models. It keeps the existing model line fresh and prolongs its life.

Originally Posted by Braces (Post 2089810)

Well ... Let's look at other successful car manufacturers and a few of their model progressions.

Cayman ... Cayman S ... Cayman R
911 ... 911S ... 911C4 ...911C4S ...911GT3 ...911Turbo ... 911Turbo S
Corvette ... Corvette GS ... Z06 ... ZR1
Audi A () ...Audi S () ... Audi RS () .... R8 ... R8plus
Ford Mustang (6 cyl) ....Mustang 5.0 .... Shelby GT350 ... Shelby Supercharged
Mercedes ....Mercedes AMG
BMW ... BMW M
Ferrari 360 .... 360CS
Ferrari F430 ... F430 Scud

There are plenty of examples. Nothing wrong with starting out with a base model and then offering future upgraded models. It keeps the existing model line fresh and prolongs its life.

Originally Posted by DAEMANO (Post 2089732)

Toyota beat Nissan to the punch.

There's not only a lot of Toyo 2000GT in the '86, but a few shakes of Datsun 240z as well. Now Nissan has to go in another direction while still trying to work in whatever current design language they can. Yes the same design language that shat the Ju(n)ke from Nissan's wretched womb.

Originally Posted by totopo (Post 2090027)

I don't see how people expect to see a fr-s/brz with more hp. What transmission are they going to use? what drivetrain are they going to use? how much weight is it going to add? are you going to use the beefier parts in the smaller engine brz (like all the other cars with multiple engine offerings) and add to the weight?

Would people buy either a 200hp 3000lb twin or a 270hp 3100lb twin that costs 35k?

Light weight, high hp, cost. Pick at most 2 out of 3, usually more like 1.5. MR cars don't sell well so scratch that off the list. Name me a modern car (that passes modern safety standards) that you classify as light weight and good enough hp. The s2k is closest historically with laxer emission standards. And it only had 10 more ft. lbs of torque than the brz, so don't even think about small displacement turbos, they put out huge torque for their hp. Beefier torque needs beefier everything. If it were so easy to make a <3000lb >300hp <30k car you think people wouldn't make it? Go look at the actual weights of modern cars. Safety standards hurts.

"light weight" is a luxury of MR cars or kit cars or cars of the past with shitty tires, no safety standards, and no torque. You can't have everything. it's like a line at the budget trade off. And if you hear what the actual bean counters and engineers at toyota are saying, they think they chose the wrong point in the line. It currently goes like, miata -> twins -> nissan z, bmw's -> mustang/camaro. And toyota thinks the market segment that needs catering to is under the miata. same with honda with the s660. I really wonder what the heck nissan is going to do with the z car. I can't see a good niche for it.

Originally Posted by funwheeldrive (Post 2090056)

1. Offer a stripper model of the FRS like they do in Japan like the GT86 RC. This would offer a car that is 150lbs lighter, cheaper, and more "mod ready" than the current base model offered. I don't think it would sell in big numbers, but it would be a really nice alternative for some people. http://www.supercarexport.eu/cars/to...-gt86-rc-spec/

Originally Posted by totopo (Post 2090075)

I wouldn't mind seeing it to just see to see how it sells. without ac i doubt it would sell enough to make any money. I doubt we will ever see track cars like that in the states.

Originally Posted by totopo (Post 2090075)

This is the thing that I always see that I don't understand. Are they going to design a one-off transmission to go with this supercharger? they don't have a rwd manual offering for that kind of torque. What drivetrain parts are they going to use? are people going to be willing to pay like $40k and 300lbs for a custom produced and installed transmission and drivetrain just for an oem warranty and toyota reliability?

Originally Posted by funwheeldrive (Post 2090056)

2. Introduce a revised model with an updated front/rear bumper, along with small tweaks to squeeze some more power out of the car, even if it's only 10-20hp.

Originally Posted by funwheeldrive (Post 2090082)

I was under the impression that these cars are able to handle more power relatively well. Arent there people with aftermarket superchargers who are still on factory transmissions, and drivetrains?

Originally Posted by funwheeldrive (Post 2090126)

Heck, I'd be happy with 180lb/ft of torque in this car. And as far as the axles go, it sounds like that is more related to aftermarket springs/coils as opposed to power output. A TRD supercharger would obviously need to be pretty conservative to maintain emission standards and reliability, but I think the car can take it.

Originally Posted by Braces (Post 2089810)

Well ... Let's look at other successful car manufacturers and a few of their model progressions.

Cayman ... Cayman S ... Cayman R
911 ... 911S ... 911C4 ...911C4S ...911GT3 ...911Turbo ... 911Turbo S
Corvette ... Corvette GS ... Z06 ... ZR1
Audi A () ...Audi S () ... Audi RS () .... R8 ... R8plus
Ford Mustang (6 cyl) ....Mustang 5.0 .... Shelby GT350 ... Shelby Supercharged
Mercedes ....Mercedes AMG
BMW ... BMW M
Ferrari 360 .... 360CS
Ferrari F430 ... F430 Scud

There are plenty of examples. Nothing wrong with starting out with a base model and then offering future upgraded models. It keeps the existing model line fresh and prolongs its life.

Originally Posted by totopo (Post 2090075)

I wouldn't mind seeing it to just see to see how it sells. without ac i doubt it would sell enough to make any money. I doubt we will ever see track cars like that in the states.

I think people are still stuck in the tuner mindset of the 80's and 90's when there was easy hp to be found in non-sports consumer cars. I am highly skeptical there are any "small tweaks" that can add power while maintaining OEM reliability and emission standards.


This is the thing that I always see that I don't understand. Are they going to design a one-off transmission to go with this supercharger? they don't have a rwd manual offering for that kind of torque. What drivetrain parts are they going to use? are people going to be willing to pay like $40k and 300lbs for a custom produced and installed transmission and drivetrain just for an oem warranty and toyota reliability?

Originally Posted by Shark_Bait88 (Post 2090372)

I was referring more to misconceptions about how products are developed, who has a hand in their approval/development, and how information is disclosed about those new products. Of course upgraded models/trims can be added, but that's a completely different discussion from the point I was making in my post.

Originally Posted by Tcoat (Post 2090392)

I am pretty sure that a lot of the "they can just do xxx" folks think that the development process consists of running out to the corner auto shop and saying "we need this, that and one of those" and slapping it on the car.
I am not even directly involved in the development of new parts and still spend a great deal of time providing info, researching materials and ensuring compliance for the guys that are involved.
Just monitoring and ensuring that the emission control requirements are met for all the countries where a vehicle is sold is a full time job for a whole department in my company!
Different countries and even different States (I don't know how cars even run in California anymore) have different requirements and the car has to meet them all to be sold there.
Just because you can buy an aftermarket turbo and slap it on your car does not mean it meets the requirements and could be sold as stock.
In Canada we could not have Evos right up to the X model since they failed the crash tests that only permit so much damage (don't recall the cut off point, sorry) at a 10 mile an hour crash. All that was keeping them out of the country was the position of the intercooler and the fact it got damaged in a head on crash. Mitsu did not see a big enough market to change everything just for Canada so we had to wait until a full model change to get them.