You do realize this is a thread talking about a 250hp "twin" right? If this thread was about any 250hp car then you would have a point. But it is not.

Well said. Truth be told, if Subaru released an STi version that came close to 50hp and a similar increase in torque I would probably consider one sooner than later if I was able to get 90% of the value back on my car. I would not take a $5K+ loss on my car to get one at this stage and would wait like you said.

Great why don't you join a Porsche forum and stay out of the BRZ/FR-S specfic forums if you don't want to talk or hear about the cars.

The fa20 is a brand new engine! give it at least one year on the market before you talk about developing a new one...

Well, I also think the 2.5 will be replaced across most of the Subaru lineup for the 2.0. MPG, MPG, MPG.....

Except for the head subaru engineer saying things like, "we want to keep turbocharging separate. It is for models like the WRX STI.”
here:
http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2...ting-boss.html

I agree, they already said they're putting the fa20 in the next gen wrx

I really hope that does not apply to a supercharger as well... I would actually prefer a supercharger in this car vs a turbo...

I hope they never plan to turbocharge it... that would kill the value of my newly purchased frs. Kind of like owning a nonturbo mr2 vs the turbos.

This is familiar to me. Where have I seen one of these? :D

LOL ! Soon BRZ and FRS will be flooding the street...even more than Civics. Those Civics fail to keep up.

I wonder... lol

Who are you kidding? You're testing the Beta STi/TRD factory version under all of our noses--hiding in plain sight!

Seriously, your car would be the perfect template for a factory Turbo high-performance variant.

lol 250hp! You are really looking into another 35k-40k msrp. There is no way going to be sub 31k msrp. keep dreaming

Since everyone else is giving their opinion and what not, let me just answer the question that user mit_peid asked... It would have to be $30K maximum... Plain & simple thank you very much...

What if A) you didn't own one of the twins yet, therefore B) you wouldn't have to take the hit in depreciation, and C) the super twin will be available in 3 months and they're taking orders now?

If i didn't already own a twin.. very yes. I would place my order and security deposit immediately. But already having mine.. i'll build it up myself

So you're saying it's ridiculous to think that an automaker like Subaru could release a faster version for less than $160 PER horsepower (assuming an $8k premium)? You do realize that Porsche charges around $11k to go from a Cayman to a Cayman S (50 hp difference).

So according to you the Porsche business model is the normal one. Whereas in reality they're the exception.

There i fixed it for you

Yeah, I am with you. Anything over $34K or so would be too much. With a $5K markup over the Limited, it would be right at $34K with destination.

That said, Subaru and Toyota may just skip supercharger/turbo and keep it around $31K and you get things like better tires, air intake, better exhaust, better suspension (sway bars), tuned ECU, etc. Maybe a 20-30hp increase at most. But still "faster".

I personally don't think they'll be making a turbo variant for the reasons mentionned above re WRX and STI fighting. In N-A I also doubt Scion would be selling a 35+K car.

However, if they do in fact build it, I'd expect pricing close to something like a golf R. With ''similar'' performance and price at 25k, the fr-s and GTI are direct competitors in their segment (ref. to all the threads about cross shoppers). It would then only make sense to go and fight the R if a higher output version comes out..

However, wouldn't it make more sense for them to skip any HO fr-s and directly jump to a 40-45k supra?? And in that way also not alienate early 86 buyers? A lexus badged fr-s would also make sense if a higher output version does come. But then aain, development costs of anything that would be needed to differentiate them.

Personally I don't think they really care about "alienating" anyone, and I don't think many customers will even care that much. Did people get all pissy when Ford debuted the Coyote engine for the Mustang GT, or when BMW replaced the 330i with the 335i? Not too bad from what I saw.

I will agree that this scenario is much more likely to happen. However that is all stuff that anyone can do easily on their own, even without voiding the warranty. No real point to trading in for that unless you're the ultimate fanboi IMO.

Curious why not, Toyota has made many, many superchargers and they have been well.... good. I've had two of them on my Tundras pull like a beast.

I would still buy the Twin with FI and 250+ HP with 250+ Torque and staying at 2800 lbs for 40K. That is it. I don't think it is unreasonable and unfair, at all to neither consumers or the manufacturer

OEMs have to make compromises that the aftermarket isn't subject to. It's why every factory turbo vehicle has a market for turbo upgrades. They tend to use small turbos and intercoolers where bigger ones will fit :). In the end, you end up payin for all that stuff twice (once from the dealer and again from the aftermarket). Also, OEMs tend to use lowest-bidder parts. See the mazdaspeed mx-5 turbo as a perfect example.

Fair enough I was just saying had nothing but good luck with all my TRD superchargers in both performance and reliability and my trucks get driven very hard to say the least not always by choice. I understand this is not a truck, but the same science in design applies.

LOL, your statement works if you replace "250+ HP" with 300+ HP. Otherwise the car you're describing would make a new Porsche Cayman look like a screaming deal.:thumbup:

lol Porsche Cayman is 52k+ MSRP .....that is 12k a part...no way

But do you really think any automaker could justify selling a sports car for $40k with only an 11.2 lb/hp ratio? The only sports car company that gets away with that now is Porsche, and for good reason.

My friend just leased a 2014 Forester 2.0XT for $280/month (he haggled the crap out of Subaru). Edmunds' True Market Value for this new is $27,296. The 2.0XT is the same FA20 as ours but turbo-charged netting 250hp, with AWD, and a lame CVT transmission. If they can do the Forester 2.0XT for under $30K, I think the turbo-version of the twin can be around the the same ballpark. IMO, main reason they man not offer up the performance variant of the BRZ is because they wouldn't want to impact sales of the WRX. The R&D involved wouldn't be starting from scratch, but not sure how Toyota's DI tech would be impacted and how emissions would be impacted.

I would just pay for an innovate intercooled supercharger and call it a day if I wanted 50hp that badly

I'm keeping my eye on the Innovate intercooled kit.... very tempting especially if they get the CARB approval. Might be the best path for me if I want that extra HP right now.

My FRS has a special place in my heart. I considered trading it in for a monogram series but I just can't part with it at this point.

A base STi is $37,600. And a fully decked out STi is $43,000. I would expect the more powerful BRZ/FR-S to cost the same. I owe $17,000 on my FR-S. And by the time the more powerful version comes out, I will owe about $10,000. So adding $27,000 to my loan sounds terrible. NO WAY! I'll upgrade mine!

This car is not about HP by design. You bought the wrong car.

But in this case the 12k is buying a 275hp, mid engine Porsche that is superior in every conceivable quality and performance aspect.

Caymans are beasts and the 981 looks like a super car.

You are forgetting vehicle value.
A base NA Forester is $22k. The turbo is $28k that's a $6k premium. The Impreza, WRX and STi also all have $8k spacing each other out.
(18k, 26k and $35k).

A factory turbo option would be at least $5k more. If they make it a package with wheels, brakes, suspension, areo kit and seats, you can count on it being $8-10k.

I picked $ 33k, because above that, I'd much rather have an STi.

It is possible that a FI model may come out, but it probably won't happen any time soon - if it does it won't be for another 3-5 years. However, I think we can use the Legacy GT DIT as a benchmark:

86's Stats

• Bore: 86 mm
• Stroke: 86 mm
• Displacement: 1,998 cc
• Compression Ratio: 12.5:1
• Power: 200 PS (147 kW; 197 hp) at 7,000 RPM
• Torque: 20.9 kg·m (205 N·m; 151 lb·ft) at 6,400-6,600 RPM

Legacy GT DIT Stats



A version with direct fuel injection and twin-scroll turbocharger was introduced in 2012 to the Japanese market for the Legacy GT DIT (direct injection turbo) sedan, and the Legacy GT DIT Touring Wagon.

• Bore: 86 mm
• Stroke: 86 mm
• Displacement: 1,998 cc
• Compression Ratio: 10.6:1
• Power: 300 PS (221 kW; 296 hp) at 5,600 RPM
• Torque: 40.8 kg·m (400 N·m; 295 lb·ft) at 2,000-4,800 RPM

I'll have my FR-S paid off soon, so I'm gonna keep that and buy a DD that's even faster than a 250HP FR-S.

Screw all that 2.5L upgrade jazz, I'm totally down on a 3.0L H6... so long as they can find a way to keep the weight down.