Recommendations for track pads better than PMU HC800+?

[DarkSunrise]

I was doing some post-track maintenance today and was surprised to see that I've finished my front brake pads after 4 track days. The rear brake pads look fine, but the fronts are done, especially the front right.

Brakes: Project Mu HC800+
Tires: Nitto NT05 (235/40/17)

I don't think I've ever killed off brake pads this quickly - do PMU HC800 pads wear faster than most? I'm in intermediate/solo HPDE. I don't consider myself that hard on brakes, although I've been trail-braking a lot more lately.

Are there other reasonably-priced pads that would last longer, say Carbotech XP8?

Thanks! Also I ordered a set of BFG Rivals since it looks like my tires are down to 3/32" in spots.

[DarkSunrise]

Front Right:





Front Left:





Rear Right:


Rear Left:

[swarb]

I've seen a couple people move up to pmu club racers from the hc800+.
Hard on brakes is relative. What fluid are you on?
Some newbs like myself are hard on the brakes because we ride on them too long thus holding the heat in.
Do you swap pads for street/track?
If you track often enough a big brake kit would be recommended as pads are cheaper and have pad more material.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by swarb

I've seen a couple people move up to pmu club racers from the hc800+.
Hard on brakes is relative. What fluid are you on?
Some newbs like myself are hard on the brakes because we ride on them too long thus holding the heat in.
Do you swap pads for street/track?
If you track often enough a big brake kit would be recommended as pads are cheaper and have pad more material.

Thanks for the PMU Club Racers recommendation. It looks like all the pads in that range (PMU CR, XP10, DTC-60) are about $200 for the fronts. I was hoping for something a step below (and cheaper) than that, maybe the XP8's for about $170.

I'm on ATE 200 fluid. I don't think I've been boiling the fluid because the pedal is consistently firm, even when the brakes are fading. I've boiled the fluid on my GTI before and the pedal would go nearly to the floor.

I do swap pads before the summer (i.e, track season) and don't really mind brake noise on the street.

If I were to evaluate my braking at the track, I usually hold about 9 or 9.5/10ths through the brake zone. As a point of reference, my last event at Summit Main I was hitting about 118 mph on the front straight and was braking by marker 4. Someone I know who was doing time trial last year in an FR-S (TTD record holder for Twins) was hitting about 121 mph and was braking at 3.5 on street tires, so I do think I'm leaving a little distance on the table.

[Blizzard]

I have been using Winmax W6's and they have been really good. I run BFG Rivals as well (sort of wish I had gone with RS-3's tbh). I have heard the Club Racers are good with the AP racing kit, but not so much with the stock brakes. I would try Carbotech XP10 or XP12 or Winmax W6's. Reasonably priced pads will give you reasonable performance. A better brake pad will cost more, but I think it is worth it. When you pay for a track day you will be happy you have good brakes. I am also running the Torque RT700 fluid. There are some serious braking zones at Miller Motorsports Park. I first ran the stock brakes. I ruined those pads and fluid quickly haha. I then used Winmax W3's with the Torque fluid and they were ok, had great modulation, but would overheat. The W6's have been solid...no fade. I am always running through the fronts more quickly than the rears as well. It is probably a good idea to swap track and daily pads if you are on a budget. If you are able to get the AP brake kit, I have seen and heard all good things and it is more cost efficient in the long run.

[strat61caster]

I jumped up from OEM to XP10's and after 2x track days and 4x autocrosses they look like they've barely been broken in (a couple DD days on the XP10's but mostly swapped back to OEM pads for DD duty). IMO the confidence was well worth the extra $50-$100 (and swapping pads before/after events) over a step down in aggressiveness and price, but XP8's may have been a more appropriate choice for my skill level. Given how long they are lasting me I am happy with them but they are probably overkill for my skill level.

I would not DD the XP10's, they are piercingly loud as the transfer layer wears off, maybe if you could get heat in them every morning on your way to work they would be livable...



Edit: Dunlop ZII Star Specs, OEM size, Motul 660 and camber bolts are my very short list of changes from stock along with the XP10's, consistently 1:53-1:57 around Laguna, conditions permitting I should be solid <1:55 next outing there as I learn how to set up and drive the Dunlops as well as my own improvements due to practice. Target would be a 1:51 best lap with current setup.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by Blizzard

I have been using Winmax W6's and they have been really good. I run BFG Rivals as well (sort of wish I had gone with RS-3's tbh). I have heard the Club Racers are good with the AP racing kit, but not so much with the stock brakes. I would try Carbotech XP10 or XP12 or Winmax W6's. Reasonably priced pads will give you reasonable performance. A better brake pad will cost more, but I think it is worth it. When you pay for a track day you will be happy you have good brakes. I am also running the Torque RT700 fluid. There are some serious braking zones at Miller Motorsports Park. I first ran the stock brakes. I ruined those pads and fluid quickly haha. I then used Winmax W3's with the Torque fluid and they were ok, had great modulation, but would overheat. The W6's have been solid...no fade. I am always running through the fronts more quickly than the rears as well. It is probably a good idea to swap track and daily pads if you are on a budget. If you are able to get the AP brake kit, I have seen and heard all good things and it is more cost efficient in the long run.

Yeah I went with Rivals only because Tirerack was having a sale on them I honestly don't need the fastest tires for HPDE and it's kind of a fun challenge finding ways to keep pace with guys on stickier tires (although often humbling lol).

Thanks for the recommendations on the Carbotechs and Winmax pads. I'm leaning towards running XP10's in the front and keeping the PMU HC800's in the rear.

Originally Posted by strat61caster

I jumped up from OEM to XP10's and after 2x track days and 4x autocrosses they look like they've barely been broken in (a couple DD days on the XP10's but mostly swapped back to OEM pads for DD duty). IMO the confidence was well worth the extra $50-$100 (and swapping pads before/after events) over a step down in aggressiveness and price, but XP8's may have been a more appropriate choice for my skill level. Given how long they are lasting me I am happy with them but they are probably overkill for my skill level.

I would not DD the XP10's, they are piercingly loud as the transfer layer wears off, maybe if you could get heat in them every morning on your way to work they would be livable...



Edit: Dunlop ZII Star Specs, OEM size, Motul 660 and camber bolts are my very short list of changes from stock along with the XP10's, consistently 1:53-1:57 around Laguna, conditions permitting I should be solid <1:55 next outing there as I learn how to set up and drive the Dunlops as well as my own improvements due to practice. Target would be a 1:51 best lap with current setup.

Thanks man. I'll probably try the XP10's next. Looking forward to some ear-piercing brake squeel.



BTW I see you're targeting Pobst for MRLS. That'd be a pretty solid time to hit!


...even if you're on cheater tires :P

[CSG Mike]

This is where the "you get what you pay for" really starts to show.

Don't make the mistake of trying to mix compounds on your axles; you'll just end up with pads that are wearing very quickly because now the loading is uneven on your car.

You really want to be using a XP10-12/Club Racer/W5-6 type of pad on both axles.

If you continue to go through pads at about 4-5 track days per set, then it's time to seriously consider a BBK.

Your pads show signs of being overheated. Perhaps you're overusing ABS. Getting brake ducting for the front will help. The rotors indicate that you're getting a good amount of heat into the braking system as a whole.

[kungfujerry]

I have had good luck with Ferodo DS1.11 pads. 5 track days and they have lots of material left (but I am no pro driver). Awesome cold bite as well and very consistent as they heat up. Only caveat is that they are very noisy if you run them on the street.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by kungfujerry

I have had good luck with Ferodo DS1.11 pads. 5 track days and they have lots of material left (but I am no pro driver). Awesome cold bite as well and very consistent as they heat up. Only caveat is that they are very noisy if you run them on the street.

The DS1.11 is an excellent pad with excellent life, but it comes at a higher price.

IMO, spending more on brake pad is worth it; you'll easily recoup the higher cost in superior pad life.

[kanundrum]

Winmax ftw!

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

This is where the "you get what you pay for" really starts to show.

Don't make the mistake of trying to mix compounds on your axles; you'll just end up with pads that are wearing very quickly because now the loading is uneven on your car.

You really want to be using a XP10-12/Club Racer/W5-6 type of pad on both axles.

If you continue to go through pads at about 4-5 track days per set, then it's time to seriously consider a BBK.

Your pads show signs of being overheated. Perhaps you're overusing ABS. Getting brake ducting for the front will help. The rotors indicate that you're getting a good amount of heat into the braking system as a whole.

Thanks, appreciate this post Mike. I was hoping my braking system was holding up decently apart from the pad wear since the pads weren't crumbling and the cracks in the rotors hadn't spread to the edges. Tracking is expensive! Just spent $500 on tires and $200 on brakes to get through about half my track season this year. Funds are a bit tight at the moment so will have to make do with XP10's in the front only for now

Front ducting sounds like a good idea though. Hadn't thought of that - I will have to look into it.

I actually don't use ABS at all on the track, mainly just threshold brake with what feels like a 5-10% reserve margin. Two of my track days were on Summit Main which is notorious for eating brakes so that could be it too.

[Sleepless]

Tires look like they have a track day or two left in them.

I don't know how your pads compare to the Carbotechs, but I generally burn through a set of XP12s in 4 days on TW200 tires and 3 days on TW100 tires. That's with TF brake ducts!

I'm now on StopTech BBK and XP12s, pads look great after two track days.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by Sleepless

Tires look like they have a track day or two left in them.

I don't know how your pads compare to the Carbotechs, but I generally burn through a set of XP12s in 4 days on TW200 tires and 3 days on TW100 tires. That's with TF brake ducts!

I'm now on StopTech BBK and XP12s, pads look great after two track days.

Yeah I was hoping to get another 2 (maybe 4?) track days out of the tires by rotating them front to back. It's hard to see in the pictures - the front tires have a good amount of outer camber wear, but I think I can get away with running them in the rear.

My PMU HC800+ are more comparable to Carbotech XP8's I think (someone correct me if I'm wrong), so you're definitely killing brake pads faster than me! Good to hear that the Stoptech BBK noticeably reduces wear. I was actually looking at that kit, but am definitely trying to avoid that cost. Once I switch to XP10's all-around, I'll see what my pad consumption looks like and will cross that bridge when I get there I guess.