NASA TT - Lets talk about spending points!

[JustDoItMikey]

This thread is for discussion of NASA Time Trial builds and how to spend the points for the best track times. There are countless ways to spend your points (please refer to http://www.nasaproracing.com/rules/t...sification.pdf for a list of the mods and points assigned them, and http://www.nasaproracing.com/rules/time_trial_rules.pdf for full TT rules) so lets bounce some ideas off each other and share experiences of what does and doesn't work.


I plan to build a car that will stay within the base TTD class. Please note I am no expert on the points system and if I am adding all of this up incorrectly please point out any discrepancies. I feel that power mods, fairly stock weight, and sticky tires will yield the best times personally so my currently planned build is as follows:

A - Tires
Toyo RR or lower for a max +9 points
Running a 235 vs the class max 245 is -1 point

C - Engine
Adding a CAI +1
Aftermarket header +2
Aftermarket exhaust +2
Upgraded cats +1
Reflash to clean up that torque curve +0

E - Suspension
Coilovers, aftermarket dampers and springs +3 & +2
Camber plates +0


I know there is a forum member in AZ with this basic setup doing very well, and it was pretty much the exact setup I was planning to try before we met. So anyway chime in with your NASA TT setup, or discussion on if spending points on A is better than B, etc.

[phastafrican]

Hal in AZ is running a different set up now He has an E85 tune and dyno'd 194hp.
225 A6 +9,
Muffler delete +2
RCE TII +5
3pts for weight.

[ja1217]

So here's my current set up. I'm usually pretty competitive, but it always depends on who shows up. My last event I came in 2nd (Summit Point Main) but was 2 seconds off the pace (dang E36's, guy set the track record), but the previous event I won at VIR.

Current Total: 16 points

Tires (6 Total):
Hoosier R6: +10
225/45R17: -4

Suspension (8 Total):
Ohlins Road&Track: +8 (Shaft > 40mm = +5, inverted front struts = +1, aftermarket springs = +2)

Brakes (2 Total):
Essex AP Racing Sprint BBK: +2

Free Mods (0 points):
DSS CF Drive shaft
ACT Prolite clutch/flywheel
Perrin Engine Mounts
Shorai 5lbs. battery

Competition Weight: 2885 (need to have at least 1/3 tank of gas and I am carrying 70lbs. of ballast in the spare tire well)
WHP (Dynojet): 185

Next year I plan on adding more power by getting a header and high flow cat downpipe (or where ever that 2nd cat is) and I'll probably move to Maxxis RC-1's for there very generous contingency plans. It's probably still not a completely optimal setup, but I did a fair amount of stuff before even considering doing TT.


Theoretical Fastest Build (19 points total):

Tires (9 points):
225/40R17 Hoosier A6: 9 points (although with the A6 being replaced with the A7, which will be a higher point cost, currently its at 22!!!)

Suspension (5 points):
Aftermarket shocks/dampers: +3
Aftermarket springs: +2

Engine (5 points):
Header: +2
Exhaust: +2
Cats: +1

Then you throw in as many free mods (bushings, etc) as you can and run right at the power/weight limit for the class.

Also, as a side note, all aftermarket headers for the FR-S/BRZ will cost 5 points. The definition of a header, according to the rules, is just the primaries. Since all aftermarket headers I've seen for our car include primaries, remove/upgrade the cat, and will modify piping going to/from that cat they are seen as 5 point modifications. See http://nasaforums.com/viewtopic.php?...119352#p467349

[JustDoItMikey]

Originally Posted by phastafrican

Hal in AZ is running a different set up now He has an E85 tune and dyno'd 194hp.
225 A6 +9,
Muffler delete +2
RCE TII +5
3pts for weight.

Ya we spent lots of time with Hal at nationals and asked him alllllll sorts of questions. Great guy, so far all the 86 guys we have met have been great... I think that basic combo is the way for us to go though, get power and torque up to max, sticky tires, and suspension stuff. But if we get hit with a 7 point penalty for 2015 its really going to change things and we are more looking at tires and suspension and thats all....

[JustDoItMikey]

Originally Posted by ja1217

So here's my current set up. I'm usually pretty competitive, but it always depends on who shows up. My last event I came in 2nd (Summit Point Main) but was 2 seconds off the pace (dang E36's, guy set the track record), but the previous event I won at VIR.

Current Total: 16 points

Tires (6 Total):
Hoosier R6: +10
225/45R17: -4

Suspension (8 Total):
Ohlins Road&Track: +8 (Shaft > 40mm = +5, inverted front struts = +1, aftermarket springs = +2)

Brakes (2 Total):
Essex AP Racing Sprint BBK: +2

Free Mods (0 points):
DSS CF Drive shaft
ACT Prolite clutch/flywheel
Perrin Engine Mounts
Shorai 5lbs. battery

Competition Weight: 2885 (need to have at least 1/3 tank of gas and I am carrying 70lbs. of ballast in the spare tire well)
WHP (Dynojet): 185

Next year I plan on adding more power by getting a header and high flow cat downpipe (or where ever that 2nd cat is) and I'll probably move to Maxxis RC-1's for there very generous contingency plans. It's probably still not a completely optimal setup, but I did a fair amount of stuff before even considering doing TT.


Theoretical Fastest Build (19 points total):

Tires (9 points):
225/40R17 Hoosier A6: 9 points (although with the A6 being replaced with the A7, which will be a higher point cost, currently its at 22!!!)

Suspension (5 points):
Aftermarket shocks/dampers: +3
Aftermarket springs: +2

Engine (5 points):
Header: +2
Exhaust: +2
Cats: +1

Then you throw in as many free mods (bushings, etc) as you can and run right at the power/weight limit for the class.

Also, as a side note, all aftermarket headers for the FR-S/BRZ will cost 5 points. The definition of a header, according to the rules, is just the primaries. Since all aftermarket headers I've seen for our car include primaries, remove/upgrade the cat, and will modify piping going to/from that cat they are seen as 5 point modifications. See http://nasaforums.com/viewtopic.php?...119352#p467349

I assume you are tuned? Are you just tuned on pump 93 or 91? I guess I need to do more research on tuning the stock car as I thought we couldn't make much more power and eliminate the torque dip without headers and exhaust. If we can thats awesome, will be doing that asap. And it looks like we both came up with the same solution for what should be the fastest car given the points. I guess only hard track time will tell now. But gotta do that tuning research, maybe I can get tuned before Road Atl in December.

[phastafrican]

The torque dip won't be eliminated... But you can tune to max hp allowed in class on E85. To get to max hp on 93, you'll need the 5pts for headers/cats/exhaust.
Keep in mind, any tune needs to have a margin of variance. So even though 199 is what gets max, you probably don't want to give some room up top, or have the option to add weight in some way, either ballast or fuel. A DQ for cheating is worse than a 2nd place for being a few hp under.

[ja1217]

Originally Posted by JustDoItMikey

But if we get hit with a 7 point penalty for 2015 its really going to change things and we are more looking at tires and suspension and thats all....

Has that been discussed at all? If so, I haven't seen it. I was actually going to see if I couldn't argue getting our base competition weight back to 2775 since the only FR-S at Nationals East was 3 seconds (I think) off the pace of 2 E36's, both of whom I will be battling at VIR in October.

[ja1217]

Originally Posted by JustDoItMikey

I assume you are tuned? Are you just tuned on pump 93 or 91? I guess I need to do more research on tuning the stock car as I thought we couldn't make much more power and eliminate the torque dip without headers and exhaust. If we can thats awesome, will be doing that asap. And it looks like we both came up with the same solution for what should be the fastest car given the points. I guess only hard track time will tell now. But gotta do that tuning research, maybe I can get tuned before Road Atl in December.

I got a Delicious Tune that netted me about 8whp up top. I am running on 93 octane gas and the only engine mod I currently have is a K&N drop in filter.

[JustDoItMikey]

Originally Posted by phastafrican

The torque dip won't be eliminated... But you can tune to max hp allowed in class on E85. To get to max hp on 93, you'll need the 5pts for headers/cats/exhaust.
Keep in mind, any tune needs to have a margin of variance. So even though 199 is what gets max, you probably don't want to give some room up top, or have the option to add weight in some way, either ballast or fuel. A DQ for cheating is worse than a 2nd place for being a few hp under.

Oh ya I saw too many DQ's at Nationals, do not want. But I dont think E85 is a realistic option for me at this point as much as I want it to be. So I am looking to stay within the confines of 93, at least until I can figure out a way to make E85 possible. So that means all I am going to do that are points related, at least until I know the 2015 points system, is tires, coilovers and a tune. Hey thats less money I have to scrounge up!

[ja1217]

Originally Posted by phastafrican

The torque dip won't be eliminated... But you can tune to max hp allowed in class on E85. To get to max hp on 93, you'll need the 5pts for headers/cats/exhaust.
Keep in mind, any tune needs to have a margin of variance. So even though 199 is what gets max, you probably don't want to give some room up top, or have the option to add weight in some way, either ballast or fuel. A DQ for cheating is worse than a 2nd place for being a few hp under.

Getting an E85 tune is a nice way to get to the max hp/weight limit and save 5 points, but I don't like having to carry around cans of E85. I don't have a trailer and my car is already full of tires, tools, and camping equipment when I go to an event.

[JustDoItMikey]

Originally Posted by ja1217

I got a Delicious Tune that netted me about 8whp up top. I am running on 93 octane gas and the only engine mode I currently have is a K&N drop in filter.

Did that help out the torque dip a good bit?

[ja1217]

Originally Posted by JustDoItMikey

Did that help out the torque dip a good bit?

Blue line was before the tune. So yes, it did help a bit, but I don't spend a whole lot of time in that RPM range on the track anyway.

[JustDoItMikey]

Originally Posted by ja1217

Blue line was before the tune. So yes, it did help a bit, but I don't spend a whole lot of time in that RPM range on the track anyway.

Well it looks like it at least made it climb back out faster, better than not tuning either way I suppose. We just need more E85 available at the track so we dont have to byoE85

[phastafrican]

Originally Posted by ja1217

Has that been discussed at all? If so, I haven't seen it. I was actually going to see if I couldn't argue getting our base competition weight back to 2775 since the only FR-S at Nationals East was 3 seconds (I think) off the pace of 2 E36's, both of whom I will be battling at VIR in October.

I'm privy to inside info. I argued a ton against going up a * this year and collected data from 19 different dyno sheets, etc. What we posted on the forums at the beginning of the year was only half of it. The FR-S will do 1.42s at RA, but that's still 4 secs behind Eric in his TTD miata which will do 1.38s.
There's no way to win that battle. The FR-S is 2 secs faster at Roebling so it's a trade off. These 2 tracks are heavily biased to one side or the other.

VIR next year will suck... long straights will favor the high HP. Might need to build for TTC if you want to win - Hal and I are both considering it. I have more PTD racers than PTC racers so right now, I'm not motivated to do it, plus would rather spend the money on sticker R7s and modifications to my trailer to transport 2 additional sets of tires and 4 fuel jugs.