Effect of aftermarket rear control arms on toe

[protpibe]

So I just put Buddy Club adjustable rear control arms into my car and I'm havnig some issues with the alignment. The shop I took it to assures me that adjusting the length of the rear control arm will have no effect on Toe, but the closest they can get the rear toe to is .8 toe out, which is obviously way too much.

The rear control arms are at their shortest setting and it looks like they weren't even touched. The camber is -1.5 right now.

The way the control arms attach to the knuckle make me think that if you lengthen the rear control arm, it will start to toe the wheel in, am I right in this assumption?

I have no issues ordering rear toe arms, but I"m thinking I should be able to get these to 0 with the factory toe arms for now.

Any help would be appreciated.

[Figo]

3 quick solution:

1. raise the height of rear.
2. run more negative rear camber. (do not recommend too much negative camber)
3. toe arms.



.

[protpibe]

The car isn't actually slammed at all. There's about a finger width from tire to fender. My problem is that I don't think the shop that I took it to is competent when it comes to aftermarket alignments.

My control arm length is set to it's shortest. Camber is currently -1.5 and toe out is .89

I guess what I'm asking is that if the rear control is lengthened, would that not bring the toe back in since it's pushing the rear of the knuckle outwards?

[King Tut]

Originally Posted by protpibe

The car isn't actually slammed at all. There's about a finger width from tire to fender. My problem is that I don't think the shop that I took it to is competent when it comes to aftermarket alignments.

My control arm length is set to it's shortest. Camber is currently -1.5 and toe out is .89

I guess what I'm asking is that if the rear control is lengthened, would that not bring the toe back in since it's pushing the rear of the knuckle outwards?

If they told you that changing camber does not affect toe, then I would find another shop. Adding more negative camber or lengthening the rear control arm will definitely bring the toe back in. The reality is that the Subaru spec calls for a decent amount of negative rear camber already. The amount you are lowered and the amount of camber you run will determine whether the OEM eccentric adjuster will be able to get your toe within specs. @Figo is correct.

[protpibe]

Originally Posted by King Tut

If they told you that changing camber does not affect toe, then I would find another shop. Adding more camber or lengthening the rear control arm will definitely bring the toe back in. The reality is that the Subaru spec calls for a decent amount of negative rear camber already. The amount you are lowered and the amount of camber you run will determine whether the OEM eccentric adjuster will be able to get your toe within specs. @Figo is correct.

Yeah thats pretty much what they said. I just checked the rear control arms and they literally weren't touched and are at the shortest. I think I'll just take it elsewhere tomorrow

[protpibe]

For anyone else that runs into this issue and the alignment shop you use tells you that control arms don't affect toe, don't give them a penny.

After 10 minutes under the car, it becomes pretty apparent. The control arm adjustment wasn't touched at all and it's really obvious what effect control arm length has on toe angle. The guy doing it must of been lazy or just didn't know much.

[Jive Turkey]

Originally Posted by Figo

3 quick solution:

1. raise the height of rear.
2. run more negative rear camber. (do not recommend too much negative camber)
3. toe arms.



.

remember when i told you this and you didn't believe me?

i had the same issue, i dont want to run more camber or change height so toe arms with aftermarket control arms are basically a must if you want to really dial it in how you want.

yeah..if they say that they really dont know how to setup a suspension

[Figo]

Originally Posted by Jive Turkey

remember when i told you this and you didn't believe me?

i had the same issue, i dont want to run more camber or change height so toe arms with aftermarket control arms are basically a must if you want to really dial it in how you want.

yeah..if they say that they really dont know how to setup a suspension

I have learned alot since I got this car. hah.

[CSG Mike]

You need a new alignment shop.

[Tye300]

I recently got an alignment and have cusco LCAs. Toe arms are stock. I was able to get -1.5 camber for my rears with 0 toe. It can be done.

[Malt]

Originally Posted by Tye300

I recently got an alignment and have cusco LCAs. Toe arms are stock. I was able to get -1.5 camber for my rears with 0 toe. It can be done.

At what ride height? That's the issue most are having with their alignments. Lowering the rear gets you more static negative camber that may be impossible to dial out without toe arms.

[Tye300]

Originally Posted by Malt

At what ride height? That's the issue most are having with their alignments. Lowering the rear gets you more static negative camber that may be impossible to dial out without toe arms.

Not as low as some people here. I'm around 2-2.5 inches lower than stock. Around what the OP said his ride height was.

[Malt]

Originally Posted by Tye300

Not as low as some people here. I'm around 2-2.5 inches lower than stock. Around what the OP said his ride height was.

I'm glad you were able to get yours done with just LCA's but there often is a huge difference side to side on the stock suspension from the factory. Many are unable to get what they want alignment wise without the toe arms and people need to be aware of that fact so they are not surprised.

Which would you rather spend: The ~$150-$200 for toe arms up front and get aligned once or risk it and have to end up buying toe arms anyway AND have to pay for another alignment?

Coming from someone who has spent way more than I should have getting my alignment dialed in people should just do it the right way the first time if their cars are lowered instead of trying to piecemeal it together like I did. I could have easily saved several hundred dollars if I had just bought everything at once.

[makinen]

I've got my rear camber -3.3 and toe in 8 mm with longest position of SPC LCAs after direct swap from stock rear LCAs.

Attachment 82746

Adjusting both eccentric bolts of stock toe arms and SPC lower arms, finally got camber -2.0 and toe 0.
20 mm down by RCE Tarmac springs.

So I can say that at least using SPC LCAs another toe arms are not necessary for usual applications.