Why you need a LSD if you like cornering!

[dp1]

Originally Posted by diss7

Sound logic. And I can think of arguements fore and against; but it boils down to me not knowing to be honest. So will leave for someone with more circuit-based track experience to answer.

It would also lead me to think that you're onto something, as circuit guys seem to favour 1.5 over a 1, and this is possibly the reason why.

My understanding is that 1.5 helps with both breaking into and powering out of the corners, at least that's why I got OSGiken (to be installed in a few weeks).

[blackhawkdown]

how does the cusco 1.5 compare to the OS Giken 1.5 compare?

[diss7]

Originally Posted by dp1

My understanding is that 1.5 helps with both breaking into and powering out of the corners, at least that's why I got OSGiken (to be installed in a few weeks).

Yes, that's been well explained already, in the 3 previous pages you didn't read.

[dp1]

Originally Posted by blackhawkdown

how does the cusco 1.5 compare to the OS Giken 1.5 compare?

Can't answer your question but I learned that both are top choices and configurable. I would suggest you reach out to @CSG Mike and @CSG David if you're planning to purchase one as they used both on track. I was very happy to give them my business after both took their time to talk me through the options and Mike took input on my driving to configure OSG in a way that should work well for me on track...can't wait to try it.

[Captain Snooze]

Originally Posted by dp1

I was very happy to give them my business after both took their time to talk me through the options and Mike took input on my driving to configure OSG in a way that should work well for me on track...can't wait to try it.

Yesssss.... This worries me a little. Over there you have knowledgeable people like CSGMike who are able to help people before and after their purchases while here a shop will happily sell you a part then wave you good bye.

[dp1]

Originally Posted by Captain Snooze

Yesssss.... This worries me a little. Over there you have knowledgeable people like CSGMike who are able to guide people through their purchases while here a shop will happily sell you a part then wave you good bye. I had not heard/read of configuring a diff until reading this thread.

I doubt that one can go wrong with anyone who sells a standard Cusco or OSG 1.5 config, but I'm happy that CSG found some room for improvement for my circumstances. They helped me with many different things and I'll give them my business anytime I can. It's obvious from many posts alone that they have the passion and knowledge, thumbs up!

[ZDan]

Test of a T3 S2000 (presumably on Hoosier A6s?) with stock Torsen vs. clutch-type aftermarket diffs:
http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/art...hats-the-diff/

OS Giken Super Lock was quicker by 0.36-.38 seconds, which is significant.
Kaaz 1.5-way was only barely quicker than the stock Torsen, by .04-.06 seconds.

If you're serious about tracking, in a developed car on the stickiest tires, and tenths matter, yeah, it's worth it to get a top-notch (more $$$) aftermarket LSD.

If you do track days for fun, street/track suspension, on mid-level tires like RA1, R888, NT01, it's way less worth it. This is my situation. I do compete in time trials, but currently I'm in a class where there's no way I'd be competitive anyway...

Stock car, on Extreme Performance street tires, no way it's worth the $$$.

[diss7]

Originally Posted by ZDan

Stock car, on Extreme Performance street tires, no way it's worth the $$$.

Unless you want to drift.

Then its definitely worth it.

Super tight 2 way, new tie rods, track pipe. 3rd gear slides all day eeeery day
[ame="http://vimeo.com/91276682"]rad mike drift zn6 on Vimeo[/ame]

[ZDan]

I was drifting my stock S2k up the hill out of turn 3 into turn 4 at New Hampshire Motor Speedway a couple of weekends ago on oldish RS3s with the Torsen. Was able to hold it out as long as I cared to. But yeah, for drifting I can see how you'd want a tight clutch type.

[ImperiousRex]

So much awesome information in one thread! I recently had a Cusco RS LSD installed (@CSG Mike's recommendation) and I'd like to offer my perspective as a mid level skill driver that enjoys track days.

I've found that the clutch type LSD has given me a larger window of car control opportunity than I had with the stock Torsen. I feel like I have more time to smoothly throttle steer the car as well as have more progressive oversteer that I can control at my skill level.

I've seen on another outside thread someone saying that Torsens can be more beneficial for getting more grip while both tires are down and that clutch types really only help in situations where a wheel is unloaded or lifted and that given the percentage of time you have the two wheel grip vs. one wheel lifted, the Torsen is preferable. In my experience even though it happens far less, the one wheel lifted scenario is much worse because it can lead to snap oversteer and spins which can lead to a loss in confidence with the car and overall laptimes can drop as a result. So in that regard having a clutch type LSD has been an extremely useful tool in helping to fix those situations as well giving me more useful track time to hone other skills.

I've also tested with traction control off and sport traction control on and I've felt gains in both situations. I can usually only save a snap oversteer situation 25-50% of the time (slow hands T_T) so on a day when I don't feel like spinning out I just leave STC on. STC has been great for saving me in a snap oversteer situation but with the Torsen it tended to intervene too much in high speed cornering so I was losing a few seconds each lap. With the clutch type LSD I've found that the STC intervenes far less in sweepers yet still keeps me on the road when the car really steps out so it's a huge win for me. With TC fully off, it's still possible to spin but the opportunity to catch yourself widens. It's almost like you're still in real time but the way the car reacts is in slower motion >.<

As for daily driveability, my car doesn't feel too different from how it felt before. There's slightly more noise at times and the car will feel different when you're going into speed bumps/driveways at angles but outside of that, you'll hardly notice that it's there.

Overall, outside of my coilovers, the LSD is easily my second favorite mod now.

[7thgear]

Originally Posted by ZDan

Stock car, on Extreme Performance street tires, no way it's worth the $$$.

depends what you value


a 1.5 way clutch type would appear to streamline the car's behavior during the various corner transitions


to me this is a confidence adding device, regardless of how quicker it makes the car, if it makes it easier to drive smoother and consistent, then that is indeed money very well spent for any weekend warrior

[diss7]

The problem for alot of people will be that no one can see their new diff they've just spent $2k on. So there's no point in getting it.

Better to get a set of super sik 18x10 xxrs, and get some rear LCA's to pump the camber out to -6; then everyone will know you are a race car driver and respect you.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Captain Snooze

Thank you for the detailed reply but it still hasn't answered what I was trying to find out. That is, what is the benefit of a 1.5-2 way. What effect does it have on the car/steering under brakes. I get that a lsd is about getting the power down to the slipping wheel but what does this mean under braking? I understand the technical detail but not the application.

The benefit, how I use it, is that it can help achieve/enhance turn-in rotation under trail braking. This allows me to enter a turn under a state of positive slip angle, rather than negative slip angle (understeer). Normally, once I enter the corner, I have to use a combination of steering and throttle modulation to get the car into a state of slip for maximum cornering speed and a set up for a good exit. The 1.5/2 way LSDs enhances the car's rotational response to trail braking, without having to play with brake bias, allowing me to spend less time balancing the car's angle and weight transfer, and more time accelerating.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Captain Snooze

Am I correct in saying that a 1.5 improves braking? My reasoning as follows: Foot on brake, equal braking force to the rear. But the inside wheel is somewhat unloaded compared to outside wheel so the inside wheel has a tendency to lock. So the diff prevents the inside wheel from locking up under brakes around bends.
Is this correct?

(Ffs. My shopping list isn't getting any shorter.)

It can potentially decrease braking distances, but on a FR layout car, that benefit is marginal to none. With a FF or AWD with a front clutch type, it'll help prevent single wheel lockup, similar to what you see in the data in the 1st post.