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05-17-2020, 12:43 AM | #15 | |
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As for the Ferrari comparison, yes it's a stretch but, they're Normally oversquare, very similar firing order (per four cylinders) and with something like a Toda ITBs, it really does remind me of something more exotic.
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The Following User Says Thank You to mokinbird87 For This Useful Post: | NoHaveMSG (05-17-2020) |
05-17-2020, 02:17 AM | #16 | |
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Cooled EGR and modern combustion chamber design allow very high EGR dilution ratios for drastically higher efficiency at low load. If you haven't noticed, Toyota's new engines are almost all NA with the exception of the V35, and the fuel economy is great. 90s engines have similar efficiency to new engines running at half the load thanks to high volume EGR and high tumble ports. Combine that with strategically picked gear ratios and passing the NEDC is a piece of cake. The F20C and F22C were produced in the 2000s but they're a 90s design; no cam phasers, no EGR => poor low load efficiency, poor fuel economy. The only saving grace is the sort of high compression ratio. Combine that with short gearing and horrible aerodynamics and you get abysmal fuel economy for how much power it has. There are plenty of underpowered NA cars that get great fuel economy. A high revving short stroke engine loses a few % efficiency compared to a long stroke low rev limit economy engine, but it's not a big difference. The F20C stroke isn't even that short at 84mm (contrast with Porsche, which had a 72mm stroke on its 2.7L H6). In fact I would argue that the hypothetical modern S2000 almost exists in the ND2 Miata. It's NA, and could rev higher if Mazda felt like spending more money on the engine. It only needs 700 more rpm to match the F22C rev limit. Thanks to slightly wider gear spacing than what (IMO silly) Honda and Toyota used in the past, it takes off quickly enough in 1st gear for modern expectations, and gets good fuel economy at higher speeds. The only reason I haven't bought one and spent tons of money on custom engine parts is because I rented one on Turo and could not tolerate the cramped cabin. Last edited by serialk11r; 05-17-2020 at 02:36 AM. |
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05-17-2020, 02:45 AM | #17 |
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IIRC most recent Ferraris never had ITBs, they came with dual plenums and dual throttle bodies. A dry sumped Honda engine with ITBs would be better than half a Ferrari V8
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The Following User Says Thank You to serialk11r For This Useful Post: | mokinbird87 (05-17-2020) |
05-17-2020, 07:16 AM | #18 |
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So....how good are these new hybrids
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05-17-2020, 11:00 AM | #19 | |
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I rly wanted the Miata to work as they're really reasonable in terms of price and aftermarket support, but even the biggest one (NC) I cannot fit in comfortably after strapping on supercharger kits and all on the BRZ, I rly didn't feel like modding the engine for more power, so I ended up with the S2000.
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05-17-2020, 11:55 AM | #20 | |
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Can you compare your 2zz mr2 to the s2000? That's something I've been pondering about. Been searching a 2zz swapped mr2 spyder. Looking for possibly a project. |
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05-17-2020, 12:22 PM | #21 | |
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For Miatas, the aftermarket support is so awesome and the cars are really well thought out, so I really really wanted to accept a lot of the shortcomings. After spending a few days in one, I just couldn't get over the windshield being right up next to my forehead. I really loved that car and would've been willing to dump money into titanium valves and custom pistons. |
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05-17-2020, 12:28 PM | #22 |
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I’m the same height as you but I’m all torso. I don’t fit in shit. I *just* fit in a 1 series. A Miata/S2K is fine, with the top down. I can’t sit straight in an RX8. The BRZ is a godsend with the seat lumbar mod.
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05-17-2020, 12:56 PM | #23 | |
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When I had my MR2 Spyder with stock seats, there was just the right amount of room to feel comfortable, though the seats themselves were horrendously uncomfortable. A bucket seat with no sliders was perfect, knee just barely missed the steering wheel, an inch to spare behind the seat, head far from the roof. My FR-S was really comfortable and I loved the driving position, it just didn't really get me excited. If you need the headroom and want something more exciting, a 981 would be good. For me, modern Porsches are a little too roomy and long, I need just a little bit of claustrophobia |
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05-17-2020, 03:07 PM | #24 | |
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I'd say you could make the case on any of the well designed inline 4's with that comparison. Like I said, oversquare doesn't really mean anything other then it was designed to handle high RPM's. High RPM's aren't everything, there is a whole host of problems associated with it.
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05-17-2020, 04:44 PM | #25 | |
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9000 takes more work but people like Papadakis think engines like the lowly 2AR are basically ready for it (with upgraded reciprocating parts of course). Past 9000 is where auto manufacturers haven't dared to go for the most part. |
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05-17-2020, 05:19 PM | #26 | |
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My comments come from the OP's video talking along the lines of over square engine for throttle response.
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05-17-2020, 05:43 PM | #27 | |
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But yea oversquare doesn't give better throttle response, that comes from throttle body size, plenum volume, and to some extent the actuation speed of VVT and other components. |
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The Following User Says Thank You to serialk11r For This Useful Post: | NoHaveMSG (05-17-2020) |
05-17-2020, 06:14 PM | #28 | |
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