Car Advice: 'Toyota 86 to undercut VW Golf GTI'

[70NYD]

Originally Posted by Nafe

I don't think we do. As said above, yes MX5 is a 2 seat convertible, but it is the only similar car available. People looking at MX5's will now be looking at the 86, particularly if pricing is reasonable. That is a fact.
And likewise, alot of the older people considering 86 will already be looking at mx5. "Oh it is like an mx5 but more practical and more powerful"
You and I being enthusiasts may not think they are comparable, but in alot of ways they really are.

AAAH DAMN
your right

[Nafe]

Originally Posted by zygrene

Some of you need to be more realistic and stop saying "the BRZ/FR-S/FT86 is in a different market than the GTI/WRX/etc." Realistically speaking, the vast majority of customers in the market for a sub-$30k "sporty" car aren't specifically looking for a totally driver-centric, RWD sports car with LSD and whatnot. They base their often limited knowledge on appearance, engine specs, acceleration, space, fuel efficiency and price. So for them, I think the GTI, WRX, Mazda3, GenCoupe, etc are all viable options to pick from.

For the more hardcore enthusiasts, of course the BRZ isn't in the same league as econobox hot hatches or w/e, but I think we're a minority among people looking at these cars.

I totally agree dude. On specs, etc they aren't a fair comparison, but the reality is most people set a budget for a "sporty/performance" car. Alot of them won't care whether the car is rwd, fwd, awd. As long as it looks good and is going to beat people at the lights.
While it may not necessarily be fair, the GTI gold is fast and sporty, the WRX is a performance car. Average people will definitely consider those kinda of options. MPS3 and SP25 as well. And MX5.
We don't have the genesis over here yet though :P

[davey90]

I have no idea what's going on now, lost track after mentioning the MX5 and the BMW 1 Series, LOL!

I was wondering if it's worth comparing it to the Honda S2000 as well, I mean i know it's discontinued, not sure if they're going to make any new models of it in future...

[JDM-20L]

Originally Posted by Nafe

We will just wait and see how the 125i and the 86 compare on road as far as handling goes

All BS aside I too am keen to see some lap times.

:happy0180:

Originally Posted by davey90

I have no idea what's going on now, lost track after mentioning the MX5 and the BMW 1 Series, LOL!

I was wondering if it's worth comparing it to the Honda S2000 as well, I mean i know it's discontinued, not sure if they're going to make any new models of it in future...

Somewhat comparative of course.... unfortunately discontinued.

[Ballsak2nv]

40k and 50k :belly roll:: bellyroll: epic failure

Priced anywhere near the WRX is disgusting to say the least. This car advice story stinks of bullshit.

Where did this 39990 come from in the first place??

Toyota at best hinted the base 86 will start with a 3 so Journo's smash out high 30k and now Toyota have gotten the 86 cheaper then expected from HQ and the new price is 37990 :belly roll: fukin wankers.

Cheaper then a GTi Golf, quality wise alone this has to be true but the GTi offers tonnes more class then this plastic 86 no matter how good it handles. Ands same as others have mentioned, 10k difference between high and low spec is total bullshit.

Sorry long time follower first time poster. Only found this forum by accident.

[pr0j]

I love my car and it doesn't break down, but it's nearly 20 years old now and little things are starting to go wrong, I'm on my third serpentine belt (any BMW drivers out there will know that gets annoying fast), the shift selector rod snapped recently, and I am led to believe there are no more drivers side window regs in the country, so I have to be super careful with the one they found me, and even then it doesn't feel like it's going to survive the 12 months or so until I am ready to upgrade.

I love my car, handles great, good economy, she's just getting on in years.

[70NYD]

They said insider said it will under cut. I don't understand why they assumed only a little bit less. That is obsurd. Why not say it will be 22k rather than 37k. Both are guesses and just as right..

[dimik252]

I agree. As it is a niche market even if the BRZ was 70g they will still sell out.

My issues is for the countless other people in my situation with 40k to spend and want to get value for my buck. Im not going to track the car? I just want to have fun around bends and beat people at lights. Hence why I'm choosing wrx.(Plus the 4 doors is a big factor for me)

IMO the 86 needs to be in premium its just way better.

The wrx premium is shit (shitty sat-nav, slide around in the leather seats), hence why most people get the standard. (Plus i wouldnt buy any car let alone a drivers car based on Push-button start and HIDs? really? pay 2000 and you can have both)

If the 86 base comes out anywhere close to the wrx/gti base then its a fail.
.

Originally Posted by Nafe

Dimik - i know which I'd rather be in at a set of lights too, and it isn't a WRX. Each to their own.
While I agree that $50k is too much for a high spec, it isn't "unreasonable" to ask it when MX5 is over $50k for a top spec....
Apparently a WRX Premium is just over $48k drive away.... Interesting. That has navi and sunroof, but from what I can tell it doesn't have push button start or HIDs. In all honesty, the 86 top spec shouldn't be as expensive as a WRX top spec, but it's a more niche market than the WRX.
The regular WRX is just over $44k.
I would still prefer the 86 to the wrx though. STI would be sick, but they start at $65k or $71k for the spec R

[dimik252]

+ mx5 is a bad comparison there in a league for there own lol

[Nafe]

My issues is for the countless other people in my situation with 40k to spend and want to get value for my buck. Im not going to track the car? I just want to have fun around bends and beat people at lights. Hence why I'm choosing wrx.(Plus the 4 doors is a big factor for me)

And this is exactly why it IS compared to the mx5, the wrx, the golf gti. It's exactly as we have said several times already. while the cars may not all be the same, or even similar, they are compared to each other because of pricing. The average person who isn't super enthusiastic about this car, but wants something sporty, will compare it to WRX, MX5 and GTI. You yourself have compared it to the WRX due to pricing, and decided to get the WRX. So the car is not the same as MX5, agreed, neither is the same as a WRX. It is compared to WRX because of pricing and it is compared to MX5 due to drving dyanmics.

IMO the 86 needs to be in premium its just way better.

I don't understand waht you mean by that?

The wrx premium is shit (shitty sat-nav, slide around in the leather seats), hence why most people get the standard. (Plus i wouldnt buy any car let alone a drivers car based on Push-button start and HIDs? really? pay 2000 and you can have both)

No one is saying that the wrx premium is good or bad, that’s beside the point, but if you’re comparing pricing of 86 High spec to a WRX it is only fair to compare it the wrx high spec as well. No, I wouldn’t buy a car for it’s HID’s or push start either (I am buying the low spec version because I don’t want leather, push start or navi anyway....), but these are features that make it the high spec rather than the low spec. 86 has HID’s, push button start, navi, leather/alcantara seats, etc. WRX has leather seats, sunroof, navi, etc. Whether the navi in the wrx is good or not is also beside the point. It is a price comparison.

At the same time, if the high spec 86 is $10k more than the low spec, that is ridiculous. It should only be $4-5k difference like we see with the WRX pricing.

But I don’t think the BRZ would sell at all at $70k. If you all think (and I do too) that MX5 is too expensive with its pricing between $48k-$55k (not to mention people whinging about 86/brz being $40k+...), then BRZ would have no hope at $70k. Z4 starts at about $80k and WRX STI spec R is $72k-ish.

These are all my opinions, whether anyone likes them, hates them, agrees or disagrees, I don’t care. But the great thing about a public forum is that it exists so we can all put our opinions forward

Enjoy racing people at traffic lights in your WRX, if that’s what you’re into the car will be really for. If you are ever at lights next to me in my 86, I won’t be racing you because traffic light GP isn’t why I am buying the car

[dimik252]

lol it must just be me but I see the Mx5 as a girl/trophy wife car

My whole argument with the premium or not was simply the 86 premium should be priced around the starting point of the wrx base, otherwise where will the BRZ sit.

I think they can easily charge more the BRZ than the 86 but.

would be an interesting line up WRX and a 86. light and nimble vs turbo 4wd. I would guess alot of it would come down to the driver.

My money is on the rex lol

[70NYD]

I dunno, my light and nimble 8 whooped a wrx around lakeside a few weeks back

[dnjshin0bi]

everyone just wait til it comes out or price is released! LOL

i've got a depo on the car and just spoke to the dealer earlier this afternoon and got advised they'll be getting the 86's in june for training purposes as well. i was also told that my 86 will arrive in the second week of july. (VIC)
the way i see it is if its more than 40k driveaway for base model i'll have to really consider alternatives (even though i really want the 86). my estimate for the base model driveaway is anywhere between 40k-43k and for the top model 50k - 55k. it seems real absurd that the 86 is potentially to be priced at these ranges because we were all informed a while ago that it would be in the 30's. maybe for japan it is but australia we're dreaming. i guess it comes down to how much you're willing to spend and whether you can wait it out and let the price drop. given that it is a new car and so much hype about it toyota aus know that there will still be buyers even if its more than what we thought.

i had a look at my finances and i would be happy to spend max 35k driveaway but its just false hope.

Here is my estimate based on what i know and what i've researched:

86 + ORC (base model) = say 43k
insurance = roughly 2k premium considering its a sports, RWD, and new car (im 25)
rims & tyres & wheel nuts = being cheap say a set of 18'' + decent tyres = 2.2k
coilovers = 2k
So all up in purchasing a brand new 86 with FULL COMPO insurance and light mods wheels and lowering will total almost 50k.

thats just my thoughts, be happy to hear what others think on my estimates as well.

[dimik252]

I think your spot on.

+ 3k for exhaust intake and tune

All this angst was caused when Toyota said it will be mid 30s Different markets aside.

I think I need to get over the fact that this isn't a replacement/alternative for a 200sx

Good marketing tactic to keep everyone talkin, even my non car mates ask me if the 86 is out yet lolol.

Originally Posted by 70NYD

I dunno, my light and nimble 8 whooped a wrx around lakeside a few weeks back

love the rotors