Is weight no longer an issue in sports cars?

[Trust86]

Originally Posted by fatoni

I do like the steering feel quite a bit but the throttle sucks in my opinion. Different strokes I guess.

Always felt throttles controlled by cable have always had better response, especially with turbos lol. You are not alone lol

[Ultramaroon]

needs moar neg camber up front. so frustrating.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9dLIR-ayJY"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9dLIR-ayJY[/ame]

[JR]

Originally Posted by Trust86

Always felt throttles controlled by cable have always had better response, especially with turbos lol. You are not alone lol

Compared to other modern cars that I have driven, the twins do have good throttle response, without needing different driving modes. It may not have the power to really push you back in your seat, but when you press on the throttle, it at least tries to go. When I shift and then get back on the throttle about halfway, I feel a jolt because it pretty much responds instantly to my input.

The Ecoboost Mustang has decent throttle response in sport mode, but suffers from turbo lag. The same can be said for the current generation Civic Si. The 2016 Camaro SS has a huge delay in touring and sport modes, until you depress the throttle more than 1/4 of the way. It honestly felt like it had a turbo. Track mode in the Camaro felt similiar to the twins and was the mode that I would always drive in.

[Trust86]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

needs moar neg camber up front. so frustrating

If they actually put some extreme summer tires on it and negative camber all around they would see how much they stick to the road

[Lantanafrs2]

Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo

Torque doesn't exist without RPM and load, at which point you have enough variables to derive power. Technically torque cannot exist without power, not the other way around. Power is work over time and work is change in energy. The fuel you burn develops work in the form of Piston speed change (over time), which the crankshaft's moment arm translates into torque. But there is only torque when there is an opposing force to resist it (grip)

How much Torque does your car make at 0RPM?

I said at whatever rpm it's produced. Dynos don't measure horsepower btw

[BlueWhelan]

Originally Posted by Trust86

Always felt throttles controlled by cable have always had better response, especially with turbos lol. You are not alone lol

Absolutely agree. My previous car was drive by cable it was seemingly instantaneous on throttle response compared to my brz.


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[StraightOuttaCanadaEh]

Originally Posted by rennlistuser3

but you're taking out driver involvement out of sports cars now.

I certainly wouldn't want that in a sports car

Me neither, I wouldn't buy them myself. I was answering objectively

[JR]

Originally Posted by BlueWhelan

Absolutely agree. My previous car was drive by cable it was seemingly instantaneous on throttle response compared to my brz.
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Throttle by cable must be really good then. Can you describe to me where there is a delay when driving the BRZ? I press the gas and the car goes right away , except when I am in the
wrong gear or in the torque dip.

[86MLR]

Originally Posted by JR

Throttle by cable must be really good then. Can you describe to me where there is a delay when driving the BRZ? I press the gas and the car goes right away , except when I am in the
wrong gear or in the torque dip.

The delay is in the engine control module.

It is for smooth operation and economy.

If you mash the pedal from idle on a cable you have 100% throttle.

Do the same with electronic and it slowly feeds in the power, it might only give you 50% throttle, even though you have rhe pedal to the floor.

This might explain it better.

https://www.carmodsaustralia.com.au/...8-10/Liberty-0

[new2subaru]

Can it be improved with a tune?

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by rennlistuser3

But honestly I do think the Apline is a fair bit higher on the exotic scale.

Are you aware about the fire on a pre-production Alpine press car in the Monte Carlo race? Complexity and exotic scale isn't necessarily a good thing.



Here are the details and a video of the fire:
https://www.motor1.com/news/238433/a...ar-fire-video/

Yes Subaru or Mazda are cheaper brands and in many cases will use a simpler manufacturing approach, but I would never imagine a press car from them catching fire even if it is not "officially" a production car. And even on the performance area and the slalom results posted a few pages back, it looks that the approach followed by the 86/BRZ works really good even with the stock tires!

[gtengr]

The majority of the weight gain in modern cars is in the physical dimensions. Tech/crash standards/emissions are overrated when it comes to why sporty cars are gaining weight imo. Look at the 2001 M3 vs. the 2019 M2. They have roughly the same physical dimensions and weigh roughly the same while the M2 adds the weight of turbochargers/intercooling. The"extra" weight of modern crash standards, emissions, and comfort items appears almost negligible.

[JR]

Originally Posted by 86MLR

The delay is in the engine control module.

It is for smooth operation and economy.

If you mash the pedal from idle on a cable you have 100% throttle.

Do the same with electronic and it slowly feeds in the power, it might only give you 50% throttle, even though you have rhe pedal to the floor.

This might explain it better.

https://www.carmodsaustralia.com.au/...8-10/Liberty-0

Thanks for the information. I was familiar with that already. I guess I was using the wrong term, but I meant the time it takes for the vehicle to respond to any throttle application, not the amount of throttle the vehicle decides to apply based on your throttle input.

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by StraightOuttaCanadaEh

Guys I'm not talking about driver involvement. The question of the thread was "is weight no longer an issue in sports cars?" Absolutely it isn't. You've got heavy ass cars with some phenomenal performance

Pure measurable performance doesn't make a better sports car. Sounds counterintuitive, but here’s an example.

A 4360 lb $85k Alfa Stelvio QV with its’ 505 HP Ferrari derived v6, carbon ceramic brakes, and active differential has better performance than 90% of the sports cars on the road. All that gear sounds racy doesn’t it? It’s an absolute beast and a great car for a long highway drive. The Stelvio QV and many other heavy GTs like it would trounce many lighter weight sports cars at tracks like Big Willow for a lap or five. Does this make it a good sports car?

• At the Auto-X or closed road course is it a good choice? I’d say not at all. Even though it’s ludicrously fast, the cost keeping a car this heavy and complex lapping reliably would chew through any personal or team budget. Generally it’s rich assholes that take big exotic GTs to the track (no offense to rich assholes, who one day I aspire to be =P )

• On the road is the Stelvio a great weekend canyon carver? It doesn't change direction, communicate, or engage the driver like a sub 3000 lb, $27k Twin or Miata. Take a step up to Alfa 4C, Cayman, or Elise and the gap gets even wider. Still, the Stelvio QV has greater measurable performance than any of these cars.

I’ve driven them all. Yes, weight still matters for sports cars, because a good sports car is the sum of many measurable indicators (not just speed and acceleration in a straight line (exc drag racing.) GTs are generally not designed for and are not good for motorsports. That’s why GT is another subjective classification of car. Sure we can overcome weight with power, torque, complexity, and money, but why bother when you can “simplicate and add lightness.” with your choice - RIP Colin Chapman ftw.