Innovate (Sprintex) Supercharger Owners Topic

[stockysnail]

Originally Posted by chargedup

aaaand now moto east didn't send me a license with my tune


this car is a disaster

If you haven't tried calling them on the phone then try that. They are only a couple guys that run a shop and tune so they are usually busy working on cars and don't monitor email constantly. They are on East coast time so keep that in mind as well.

[continuecrushing]

moro-east tune loaded, and drove the car to work today.

The stock clutch is not happy with the 335 lol. Ordering a new clutch today.

Pulls HARD (when the clutch isn't slipping haha). 1st/2nd seem okay, but 4th and up don't like boost in lower rpm (not even wot, just brisk acceleration). By "low" I mean 3.5k haha.

[riboyster]

Gonna be fast as hell with a sticky clutch!

[brybot]

Originally Posted by brybot

Hey guys, wanted to describe my situation more and see if anyone knows any remaining options I might have.

I installed the Sprintex 210 on my car last week, along with the Moto East Flex Fuel kit and 3" Perrin Big MAF CAI. The car was tuned with Moto East and I installed the ECUTek tune before starting it the 4 or 5 times last week. I also did a Perrin lightweight crank pulley, which I had problems with aligning correctly. Each time I started the car with the perrin pulley on, it had a decent wobble to it, even though I did align the pin. The car was extremely close to empty at that point. I left town for Christmas and there the car sat.

Got back last night, installed the stock crank pulley, and everything seemed to align properly, but the car wouldn't start. It cranks but does not turn over. I thought this was because it was out of fuel, so I put some E85 in it. I made sure the fuel pump primed a few times, power to the fuel pump was reconnected, and the fuel gauge was showing half a tank or so. Car still won't start. Disconnected the fuel lines right behind the injectors, both had some E85 in it. Still no start. Moto East saying it can't be the tune. I tend to agree with them not because I know a thing about tuning, but because it started last week with the tune on it.

Two local shops (Dallas) won't work on it, so it's being towed to a third who said they would.

If this shop can't help me, I truly don't know what to do aside from removing the flex fuel kit, trying again, then removing the blower, and trying again. After that it'd go to the dealer.

Anyone have any ideas?

Update: As humiliating as it is to explain what's happened, I figure everyone else can benefit from this. Don't wait to get the thread off topic so I'll keep it brief.

Pretty much this was a botched crank pulley install on my part. Balancer piece came out, wasn't realigned properly (by me) and engine is doneski. Replacing it this week since I'm not in a place to rebuild it.

So as we thought, had nothing to do with the SC, and especially not the tune.

[riboyster]

Which piece is the balancer piece? This scares me as I have an aftermarket crank pulley as well.

[chargedup]

Also got my moto east tune running on my 210 (they were great to help out). e85 is crazy fast. clutch slipping now

[brybot]

Originally Posted by riboyster

Which piece is the balancer piece? This scares me as I have an aftermarket crank pulley as well.

PMing you to keep the thread on topic.

[Xero-Limit]

Originally Posted by brybot

PMing you to keep the thread on topic.

This is an important point because this is easy to get wrong and lots of folks with these kits put on pulleys, so it is fair to address it. We actually just took in a fresh built motor that got destroyed the same exact way it looks like. MAJOR thanks for coming back here and sending some followup on what happened.

You have a sprocket that's keyed on to the crank. The timing chains ride that sprocket. You the oil pump drive that then sits on the other half of that keyway, which turns the oil pump. The crank pulley then aligns on a pin coming out of the oil drive with an o-ring in between. Crank pulleys that are "dampers" can also have an integrated oil pump drive in the pulley replacing the factory unit.

In any case, if there is a misalignment of the pin on the oil drive or the oil drive and the keyway, the keyway gets pushed back against the crank and wants to squeeze "up" on the timing sprocket. This has the unsurprising result of shattering the timing gear. Below is the motor we just took in. You can see the damage from the keyway being pushed back.



To make matters worse that's only where things start. If the motor is attempted to be started in this situation, the pistons will smash all the valves and cause catastrophic damage.

This shouldn't scare people necessarily from doing crank pulleys on FA20's. They're actually very easy, but you have to be careful and not rush. Probably thousands of these pulleys installed and just a small handful of failures that we're aware of.

Big thing to remember is that the oil pump drive shoudl be flush with the front cover, and sit on the pin, and check that the o-ring didn't fall out. Then just line up the pulley and torque down using the FSM instructions.

[brybot]

Originally Posted by moto-mike

This is an important point because this is easy to get wrong and lots of folks with these kits put on pulleys, so it is fair to address it. We actually just took in a fresh built motor that got destroyed the same exact way it looks like. MAJOR thanks for coming back here and sending some followup on what happened.

You have a sprocket that's keyed on to the crank. The timing chains ride that sprocket. You the oil pump drive that then sits on the other half of that keyway, which turns the oil pump. The crank pulley then aligns on a pin coming out of the oil drive with an o-ring in between. Crank pulleys that are "dampers" can also have an integrated oil pump drive in the pulley replacing the factory unit.

In any case, if there is a misalignment of the pin on the oil drive or the oil drive and the keyway, the keyway gets pushed back against the crank and wants to squeeze "up" on the timing sprocket. This has the unsurprising result of shattering the timing gear. Below is the motor we just took in. You can see the damage from the keyway being pushed back.



To make matters worse that's only where things start. If the motor is attempted to be started in this situation, the pistons will smash all the valves and cause catastrophic damage.

This shouldn't scare people necessarily from doing crank pulleys on FA20's. They're actually very easy, but you have to be careful and not rush. Probably thousands of these pulleys installed and just a small handful of failures that we're aware of.

Big thing to remember is that the oil pump drive shoudl be flush with the front cover, and sit on the pin, and check that the o-ring didn't fall out. Then just line up the pulley and torque down using the FSM instructions.

Thanks Mike. This is exactly what mine looked like and since I did try to start it, well, catastrophic damage is the only way to put it.

This thread: http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26386
is dedicated to this topic also if you want to see additional pictures.

[riboyster]

Wow I had no idea. Gonna repost this in any pulley thread I can find when I get home. Super important.

[riboyster]

Anybody see any knock with this setup yet? Considering running aggressive tune with no IC.
Any issues with those of you who've beaten the piss out of your chargers? So far stage 1 tune has no probs running 69mm 210.

[ajcarson11]

Originally Posted by riboyster

Anybody see any knock with this setup yet? Considering running aggressive tune with no IC.
Any issues with those of you who've beaten the piss out of your chargers? So far stage 1 tune has no probs running 69mm 210.

I'll be honest here -- The harder you push it without all the supporting mods the less reliable it will be. Just because you get a response or two saying 'i'm good while running XXXXX' doesn't mean that you will be any better off than anyone else.

Of course you can run any pulley you want with any setup... the engine isn't necessarily going to say 'I don't like this' until it pops.

Just a thought. I can see from your post history in this thread that you started out on the stock pulley and have gradually moved to more agressive setups while non-intercooled. If you're getting used to the power and wanting more then I'd say its time to invest in an IC and more supporting mods.

I get the love for power... but just keep it all in perspective! there is a reason you're only one of a few running the 69mm pulley non-intercooled. It wasn't designed for that, and others have recommended against it.

Personally i'd rather cost myself 10hp and have my engine last for an extra 20,000 miles than the other way around.

[riboyster]

Just trying to save money. If I don't have to blow 1500 on a semi functional charge cooler, I won't.

[continuecrushing]

Originally Posted by riboyster

Just trying to save money. If I don't have to blow 1500 on a semi functional charge cooler, I won't.

It might almost be cheaper to buy a stage 2 kit whole, take the IC/heat exchanger/pump and sell the supercharger kit as stage 1.

I'll be selling a stage 2 kit soon, if you can find a buyer for the supercharger without the ic stuff, let me know and we can work something out.