Pilot Supor Sport 225/45 or Pilot Sport 3 215/45

[JGalp]

Correct me if I'm wrong, i live in SOcal so it doesn't really matter. the michelin PSS is a summer tire, the Michelin Pilot sport A/S 3 is an all weather tire. i had these on my s2000. wouldn't those be better in the rain? and the PSS not perform well in the wet? I've heard from my uncle that the PSS are awesome. i just want to make sure they are as good or better than the Michillen A/s 3 in the rain if anyone can comment on this. Thanks!

[Black Tire]

Originally Posted by JGalp

Correct me if I'm wrong, i live in SOcal so it doesn't really matter. the michelin PSS is a summer tire, the Michelin Pilot sport A/S 3 is an all weather tire. i had these on my s2000. wouldn't those be better in the rain? and the PSS not perform well in the wet? I've heard from my uncle that the PSS are awesome. i just want to make sure they are as good or better than the Michillen A/s 3 in the rain if anyone can comment on this. Thanks!

Oops, tire name confusion here. The Michelin Pilot Sport 3 that is being discussed is a summer tire.

Michelin Pilot Sport 3

The Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3 is a different tire and is and "all season" tire.

Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3

The Michelin Pilot Super Sport is also a summer tire.

Michelin Pilot Super Sport

I think the Pilot Sport 3 is a bit softer than the Pilot Super Sport. The PSS is the successor to the PS2 which was Michelin's previous best performance tire. I think the PS3 was designed to be a bit "friendlier" but still have better wet performance than the PS2. From what I have read though, I get the impression that the Pilot Sport 3 would do better in the rain than the Pilot Super Sport. Also, the PS3 may be better for a lighter car such as ours, and perhaps better for a bit of "sliding" or playing around on the road due to lower overall dry traction.

It is virtually impossible to find a tire test with both the PSS and PS3, because such tests are usually done by magazines that ask each manufacturer to submit the best of their tires for a given test article. Each manufacturer is usually allowed to enter only one tire. Also, tire tests for wet performance are often difficult to interpret. Is the test track just a bit wet, or was the test conducted during rain where there can be standing water? Does the test differentiate between wet handling and resistance to hydroplaning? Both of these can vary due to different vehicle tire sizes, suspension setup, and weight.

[Akari]

Originally Posted by JGalp

Correct me if I'm wrong, i live in SOcal so it doesn't really matter. the michelin PSS is a summer tire, the Michelin Pilot sport A/S 3 is an all weather tire. i had these on my s2000. wouldn't those be better in the rain? and the PSS not perform well in the wet? I've heard from my uncle that the PSS are awesome. i just want to make sure they are as good or better than the Michillen A/s 3 in the rain if anyone can comment on this. Thanks!

Pilot Super Sports will far outperform the A/S 3 in rain.

Take a look at some of the test results, unfortunately they're not on the same chart but the point still stands.

[ZDan]

PSS are great in the wet *warmed up*. My experience has been that they have a surprising lack of grip when cold or even cool, though. But that's with much wider 245/275 tires on my FD, which probably never warm up in temps below 45F on the street.

[EAGLE5]

My experience on the FR-S is that the PSS are better cold than the Primacy. Once heated up on the track, the Primacy grip pretty well, far better than they do when cold on the street. I've not taken the PSS to the track on the FR-S, but on my 550i, the PSS got greasy when heated up. There was also some driver here, can't remember who, who gathered data that said how, at the limit on the track, the properly warmed PSS and Primacy were equal in grip.

That is why, for the street, I use PSS. For the track, I use Primacy. Lightly used Primacy are cheap. If I wanted to go faster at the track, I'd go with something like the RS3.

Primacy are really fun track tires. When warmed up, they clearly communicate their limits.

[Akari]

Originally Posted by jsimon7777

My experience on the FR-S is that the PSS are better cold than the Primacy. Once heated up on the track, the Primacy grip pretty well, far better than they do when cold on the street. I've not taken the PSS to the track on the FR-S, but on my 550i, the PSS got greasy when heated up. There was also some driver here, can't remember who, who gathered data that said how, at the limit on the track, the properly warmed PSS and Primacy were equal in grip.

That is why, for the street, I use PSS. For the track, I use Primacy. Lightly used Primacy are cheap. If I wanted to go faster at the track, I'd go with something like the RS3.

Primacy are really fun track tires. When warmed up, they clearly communicate their limits.

PSS seem to be much more temperature and pressure sensitive which is a good reason to monitor both during your time at the track. I've not been able to overheat my 235s on the track yet (after getting pressure dialed in correctly) but I'll likely get there with more seat time. This may be a reason to get out of the 215/225 range and move up a tire size or two.

I played around with my Primacys once there and was definitely left wanting more grip. The progressiveness is nice but it feels much easier to outdrive traction on these IMO.

[continuecrushing]

go with the PSS

[ShadowTS]

Originally Posted by Pete156

What? Not legal?

In Italy can only fit tires of the sizes reported on the car's slip/document. Since the only wheel size the GT86 is sold with is the 215/45, we only have this size on the slip/document. To have different sizes you have to go through a process, involving an authorization from Toyota Italy and a test from the local Italian Automotive organism, moreover the new tyre have to be in the ±5% radius of the stock one and the whole process costs a couple of hundreds euro, that basically you won't do just to go from 215/45/17 to 225/45/17, you will do it to approve the 18 wheels directly.

[ShadowTS]

Originally Posted by ChrisD

Thanks, I thought I was going mad. I just tried to order the 224/45/R17 PSS and yeah they don't exist in the UK either... So I've just gone for the Pilot Sport 3s in the stock size of 215/45/R17. I figure they've got to be a little better than the Primacys that are on there even if they're not as good as PSS

Instead of the PS3 I would have chosen the Yokohama V105, since they are the most similar to the PSS on may of the independent tests. For the Yokohama Advan Sport V105 I've noticed the opposite behaviour of the Michelin PSS: here in Europe you can find them in the 15-17 inch sizes, while on Tirerack (US) they are only listed in big sizes.

[Black Tire]

Originally Posted by ShadowTS

Instead of the PS3 I would have chosen the Yokohama V105, since they are the most similar to the PSS on may of the independent tests. For the Yokohama Advan Sport V105 I've noticed the opposite behaviour of the Michelin PSS: here in Europe you can find them in the 15-17 inch sizes, while on Tirerack (US) they are only listed in big sizes.

The supply of Yokohama Advan Sport V105's at the Tire Rack seems to be diminishing rapidly in many sizes. Either the Tire Rack will stop carrying Yokohamas (or just this one), or Yokohama is readying a new tire for release this spring or summer. Ditto for the Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric 2.

[ShadowTS]

FYI it seems that Michelin PSS are now available in Europe (at least in Italy) in 215/45 R17. They are listed on our national Michelin website and available in some of the major online Europe dealers.

[churchx]

Now that's some good news. Shipping over pond from US to EU adds quite a lot due weight and size. +No extra hassle with VAT/custom duties, as it's from another EU country.

[mixedjuice]

Originally Posted by TylerLieberman

Some places only stock/list certain sizes. You have to check around a bit

http://www.onlinetires.com/products/...sport+91y.html

$138 each here

Is this a legit vendor? i was quoted for free shipping even to me here in Alaska!!!

[TylerLieberman]

Originally Posted by mixedjuice

Is this a legit vendor? i was quoted for free shipping even to me here in Alaska!!!

I've bought from them numerous times before. Just call and make sure they're in stock. Placing orders over the phone is the way to go with those guys.