2020 Toyota GR Supra Revealed!

[86MLR]

Originally Posted by Captain Snooze

Manual rulz


Attachment 174892


Auto rulz


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Thanks mate, I near pissed myself laughing

10/10

[krayzie]

At least the ruler is Made in the good ol' US of A. Not that Chinese laser crap from Wallyworld I bet they use the same thing in a ton of different bullshit brands. How much faster does it measure, 0.01 seconds? Pffffft. Nobody measures that seriously at home.

[WolfpackS2k]

Originally Posted by mrg666

By giving up that heel-and-toe, you can still have fun while sharpening the other aspects of your driving skills at a higher level. It is a give and take and especially true for latest sports cars.

Not trying to sway you ... enjoy your cars!

More sports cars the better! However I find the overall trend (death to manuals) very depressing, and thus will always fight for the manual.

[krayzie]

I hate to say this but I hope this Zupra flops hard and teach Toyoda and Tada a lesson in trying to dictate what enthusiasts want with what their committees want, and being seemingly dishonest thus far about the whole thing. If this is their last ever sports car it will forever mar their careers with a question mark.

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by krayzie

I hate to say this but I hope this Zupra flops hard and teach Toyoda and Tada a lesson in trying to dictate what enthusiasts want with what their committees want, and being seemingly dishonest thus far about the whole thing. If this is their last ever sports car it will forever mar their careers with a question mark.

I'm betting the opposite happens.

Consider this; Tada and his team worked hard to aim the 86 at enthusiasts, and the general public's reception to them is lukewarm at best. No matter how well they nailed the character of the car (perfectly IMO), there are still the everlasting 'MOAR POWER' arguments.

The Supra wasn't meant to appeal to enthusiasts like the 86. They picked the Supra name because it's much more iconic to the public than the AE86. Hell nobody outside of Japan even knows what an AE86 is, unless they watched InitialD. The Supra is meant to sell to the general public that want a sporty car, that's why they went to BMW. That's why they need the 2nd gen 86, because the 86 is much more hardcore as a sports car than the Supra. Don't confuse that statement with me saying it's more capable than the Supra though. They're aimed at different segments, sports car vs grand tourer. That's why the Supra will sell just fine without a manual.

[JD001]

Originally Posted by krayzie

At least the ruler is Made in the good ol' US of A. Not that Chinese laser crap from Wallyworld I bet they use the same thing in a ton of different bullshit brands. How much faster does it measure, 0.01 seconds? Pffffft. Nobody measures that seriously at home.

Is 'Wallyworld" for real? It has a whole new meaning in the UK..

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by krayzie

I hate to say this but I hope this Zupra flops hard and teach Toyoda and Tada a lesson in trying to dictate what enthusiasts want with what their committees want, and being seemingly dishonest thus far about the whole thing. If this is their last ever sports car it will forever mar their careers with a question mark.

The AT vs MT discussion will have zero net impact on the sale of the Supra. It may change WHO buys it, but they'll still sell every one they intended to sell. If it flops it will not be because of the transmission.

[krayzie]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

The AT vs MT discussion will have zero net impact on the sale of the Supra. It may change WHO buys it, but they'll still sell every one they intended to sell. If it flops it will not be because of the transmission.

I wasn't even thinking of the transmission but the entire car overall. There is no Toyota in it and everytime I look at it something doesn't seem right. Half-hearted attempt?

[unhappymeal]

I can't believe we are still bitching over automatic vs manual and not marveling at this car's existence. Honestly, has anyone here been paying attention to the automotive landscape? We live in a world where even the humble family sedan is dying and run of the mill 911 Carreras can be optioned out to $200,000. The fact that a new 2-seat hard top sports car is available for sub-$60k should be considered miraculous.

I get that people are disappointed that it's not pure Toyota, but I suspect few appreciate how hard of a sell this project was internally. Akio basically had to say "against the recommendations of the Toyota Board, I am going to force through the Supra project because Toyota needs it". To make it financially viable, they agree to partner with BMW to use their CLAR architecture, the sweet B58 engine, produce it in a non-Toyota factory and do their own chassis and suspension tuning. All of this for a dying segment of the most impossibly fickle buyers. And yet we're still complaining.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by JD001

Is 'Wallyworld" for real? It has a whole new meaning in the UK..

We had a Wallyworld here for about a decade. Was a water park but was moved and the location is a shopping center now.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by unhappymeal

I can't believe we are still bitching over automatic vs manual and not marveling at this car's existence. Honestly, has anyone here been paying attention to the automotive landscape? We live in a world where even the humble family sedan is dying and run of the mill 911 Carreras can be optioned out to $200,000. The fact that a new 2-seat hard top sports car is available for sub-$60k should be considered miraculous.

I get that people are disappointed that it's not pure Toyota, but I suspect few appreciate how hard of a sell this project was internally. Akio basically had to say "against the recommendations of the Toyota Board, I am going to force through the Supra project because Toyota needs it". To make it financially viable, they agree to partner with BMW to use their CLAR architecture, the sweet B58 engine, produce it in a non-Toyota factory and do their own chassis and suspension tuning. All of this for a dying segment of the most impossibly fickle buyers. And yet we're still complaining.

People bitched about the 86 and will bitch if a MR2 ever actually comes out because if it does get made it will be another joint venture with somebody. They all want a supercar at a economy car price but have no clue as to the realities of the automotive world. Most of the ones screaming the loudest could not afford it anyway and that is why they are hanging out on an entry level sports car forum. Many of the others are in love with their 13 year old Porches or whatnot and think nothing will ever be as good so they hate on it. The whole "it isn't powerful enough for the cost" and "no MT means it is for women" crap is just their deep seated self justification for not wanting one. Not one of the people whining about the performance and power has ever driven one so they just play their bench racing numbers game and declare it a failure.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by krayzie

I wasn't even thinking of the transmission but the entire car overall. There is no Toyota in it and everytime I look at it something doesn't seem right. Half-hearted attempt?

Sorry, I guess I was just carrying that over into your comment after reading a lot of the thread above it.

In the end, I found this interesting. Both AT and MT are losing ground to CVT and AMDC. Of course, this is Global sales so it is definitely not the view in North America.

[krayzie]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

Both AT and MT are losing ground to CVT and AMDC.

I think in 5 to 10 years the chart will totally flip as they keep tightening emission standards and everything is going towards hybrid electric.

If there's even a conspiracy, I think the automotive industry saw this future long ago and planned to phase out MT and eventually AT in stages overtime. The easiest way to phase them out is to force the replacement tech onto the halo exotics first, changing the minds of the public into thinking what should be best for them.

Yes sports cars and family sedans are dying, it's a vicious cycle seeing how at least here our local roads have gotten so bad in recent decades, cities cutting cost in snow removal, etc. Of course SUV becomes the choice of the day. Gone is the time when luxury SUVs were strictly reserved for the rich.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

Sorry, I guess I was just carrying that over into your comment after reading a lot of the thread above it.

In the end, I found this interesting. Both AT and MT are losing ground to CVT and AMDC. Of course, this is Global sales so it is definitely not the view in North America.

From an fuel economy and emissions standpoint there is not much that can beat the newer CVTs. A tranny that doesn't make the engine have to climb in revs to hit the next gear has an impact. Wouldn't be surprised to see them totally replace the old school AT designs over time.