WolfSong Audio Build

[WolfSongX]

I guess I've been threadjacking other people's threads for long enough.

Knocking my door amps out for a bit got me moving on a full-fledged audio build. I'd been avoiding it for a few reasons... the first being that I didn't want to spend the money (still don't, see budget below), but I also didn't want to get into the complexity of a major SQ build, especially since it was going to be for my own personal enjoyment and not competitions. I was convinced that I didn't want to add weight to the car where I could help it, and unfortunately that's pretty much going to be the side effect of doing a quality build.

So here are some of the limitations I'm going to be working with.

• I want to keep the stock OEM Subaru Navi head-unit for the time being. I may decide to upgrade it later, but for now it does most of what I want and it's already there.
• I have a set of Alpine Type 6.5" X-REF components (SPX-17REF) lying around minus the crossovers which were accidentally damaged. This means that the final product will be Active 2-way or 3 - way system. If anyone's curious here's the specs on them: Alpine-SPX-17REF
• I need a processor with time alignment, especially if I decide to put the tweeters into the A pillars. I'll also need a processor that could handle a 3 way split, preferably a 4 way so I could have a 3 way front stage and then a sub channel. I was preferring the MS-8 as the primary option, and have seen them for less than $500 on Amazon, so it's a reasonable option with my budget, but I'm also open for input on other processors.
• I also have a 10" sealed sub box that's approximately .7 cubic ft airspace that I'd like to re-use. It had an old Rockfort Fosgate Sub from the 90's in it that sounded awesome, but in the past couple of years the surround deteriorated and is now cracking off, so I want to get something nice sounding back in that box.
• Since I have the drivers, my budget for the sub, 5 channel amp and processor will be roughly $1000 (and I'll be shopping around for the best prices on these items so I think that's do-able)
• I've already picked up the wiring for the amp, I went with 4 gauge since I was only planning on powering a 5 channel amp and a processor and not going with a multi-amp setup.
• I'd also like to do this in a staged fashion, so that I'm not spending everything at once. I'd like to buy the amp and the sub first.
• Based on the builds that I've seen, I'm thinking that I'm just going to hang the amp and the processor under the package tray, that will keep the trunk somewhat usable. I have a fused distribution box and an inline fuse to wire things properly back there.
• I've already reinforced the chassis ground with 0 gauge wire... but have not done the "Big 3" wiring mods.

I was pretty decent at this 12V stuff before... I only really stopped because I kept having issues with my back that took weeks and months to recover from and having that long time between being able to complete jobs meant that I finally just got my audio to a point where I could live with it, and then didn't take it any further.

I actually re-injured my back this past weekend, which has scared me a little since I wonder if it's a sign that I should just leave things well enough alone... but I've gotten to the point where I want this car to sound better... so I'm going to press forward... once I've recovered enough that I won't re-injure myself.

Staged Build:

1. STAGE 1 - Wire in the amp and the subwoofer, minor sound deadening (rattle control) in the trunk and package tray.
2. STAGE 2 - Major Sound deadening in the trunk and cabin. Wire the runs for the speakers to the doors and dash from the trunk.
3. STAGE 3 - Purchase sound processor and possibly mid-range drivers. Hook everything up and tune.
4. STAGE 4 - Crank it up and enjoy it!!!!

So the first step of Stage 1 is to determine the 5 channel amp and sub driver, and I know that the drivers I have like the power, and will be hooked up active. Alpine says 8-75W RMS in the specs, but I'm wondering what I should be realistically looking at per channel, and since I'm not going to have the OEM passive crossovers in the circuit, what do I actually need to be feeding to that midbass driver and to the tweeter. I've noticed that some of the new amps have speaker level inputs so that seems to be the way to get some bass in the car quickly.

Suggestions and education are definitely welcome. I know enough to be dangerous, but I'd welcome everyone's input since there's still a lot of stuff I need to figure out. I had just started to get into the heavy math type theoretical stuff before, but I also just like to tune by ear, I'm an ex-musician so I respond to music and sound on mostly an instinctive level anyways.

I'll start posting pics once I get started on wiring trunk for the amp.

[SubaSteve]

Seeing as you have a brz I would suggest going aftermarket for a head unit. I did the same thing as you plan and invested in a lc6i but I feel like that is where my biggest upgrade could come from. The stock head unit is a pain in the ass. Very disappointed there are no outputs on the stock head unit.

[DNAPoPo]

I'm in stage 1 of your process right now... just added sub and started tuning and going to add some damper material.

Suba, you suggest changing the head unit before adding a DSP?

[mid_life_crisis]

If you add the right head unit, you might not need a DSP.

[SubaSteve]

Originally Posted by DNAPoPo

I'm in stage 1 of your process right now... just added sub and started tuning and going to add some damper material.

Suba, you suggest changing the head unit before adding a DSP?

I would do head unit and then make that decision for yourself later on. Thing with keeping oem it's gonna cost you a good amount of money and time getting it setup. Keep in mind all that will have to be removed when you install your new head unit.

Installing all those blue wires was a pain versus just running one cable from an aftermarket head unit.

[WolfSongX]

I agree with SubaSteve that it's a real pain wiring for the speakers and I'm not looking forward to that particular task.
Finding a HU that has everything I want is a huge pain. I admit I've been spoiled in the past (had a Pioneer DEH980BT which included all of Pioneer's audiophile DSP stuff including time alignment, 5V outputs, graphic EQ and a 24bit Burr Brown DAC, I wish I still had it, but it went with my trade) I am not saying that it's not a possibility, but what I've found is that it's easier to use a processor to get that capability than it is to find a HU that has everything you need. At the time I tried to find a NAVI HU that had the same capabilities and sound quality and couldn't find anything.
It just seems easier with using a HU that has the features you want and doing the signal processing downstream.

[wrohdejr]

I did the lc6 thing as well but wired it up under the dash and just ran rca's back to the trunk and then ran new speaker wire to the doors from the amp. I actually like the stock brz unit with nav. The lc6 was the best piece of the puzzle to make this all work.

[WolfSongX]

The more I consider just getting a head unit, the more I realize that it will at least double the spend to get the same capabilities I have now.(Navi, Bluetooth, Sirius) I know the OEM system isn't the greatest, but based on what I looked at, the high grade Navi HU's were close to $1000 with quality DSP. I made the mistake once of buying a $1400 Kenwood Navi with the top DSP features and found it sounded like crap compared to my Pioneer (even though on paper it should have been equivalent or better). On top of that, the features, navi, and touchscreen worked so well I was compelled to put my fist through it in frustration. It was a very expensive mistake, and a lesson that the more things that are promised, the bigger the compromises, and that expensive mistake is one that can easily be repeated.

So instead, I think think that I will go with a sound processor to handle these features and then when I choose to upgrade the HU, I'm buying what works the best, not a compromise of feature sets. I thought about using some of the AudioControl products but I haven't found anything they make that is capable of Time Alignment... which is a must have for me.

Currently the main processors in the running:

• JL Audio MS-8
  • Pros: Easy self tune will get me 80% of the way. Do not have to spend a lot of time learning the finer points of tuning. Amplified outputs will run some speakers.
  • Cons: Hard to do the last 20% of the tune, expensive, limited ability to tweak as I learn. Good chance I may outgrow the tuning capabilities as I learn.
• Rockfort Fosgate 3Sixty.3
  • Pros: Very powerful tuning solution, can be found cheaply, will be able to grow and learn with the capabilities. Still has a method of auto-tuning the Factory EQ curve.
  • Cons: Steeper learning curve before being able to do things past the basic setup, will require amplifiers for all channels.
• MiniDSP 10×10 box
  • Pros: Extremely Flexible System, Pricing is not bad, tons of DIY support. Software plugins upgradable, able to program my own custom DSP
  • Cons: Not sure if the construction is up to the additional stresses of mobile audio environment. Steep learning curves for tuning. Not a plug and play solution. Will need amplifiers for additional channels.

There are still more processors to consider, these are just the ones I've researched so far based on what I've seen on the market.

[TouchMyHonda]

Hum

[Zippy]

If you have a cell enabled tablet, I'd suggest getting an Audison Bit 10D or Bit 1 with the volume control piece and using a Pure i20 to use toslink from the tablet to the DSP. This will get you a full digital signal to the DSP, a known commodity tablet for GPS NAV that updates itself for free, and a removable head unit. On the flip side, you will need to amplify all speakers.

You will not get a cleaner sound.

[WolfSongX]

Did a little bit this weekend in running power to the rear of the car. I'm using Knukonceptz cables and hardware.


I know some people think Tech-flex is overkill, but I prefer to be safe than sorry. I liked the brackets that I've seen on other builds so I decided to fab one up for myself.




I actually fed the cable up from the trunk. I used the sound tube opening which was too big on it's own for 4 gauge, so I decided to just pull it through in the split loom to fill in the space. I know some people have used the sound tube cut down to fill in the space, but I found that the Tech-flex made the cable too wide to fit through it, so the split loom was an inspired decision.






I did make sure to secure the cable on run back. I also used a bit of split loom going through the back seat into the trunk.




Run up into the roof of the trunk to my distribution block.




I like the end result which is subtle and out of the way.


Now I need to get something to hook up back here... I've been thinking of getting in on the group buy for the 10" Custom Sub Enclosures fiberglass enclosure, so I've been looking for an appropriate driver and from there, a 5 channel amp.

[Shankenstein]

Howdy WolfSong! I like the direction of your project, so please keep posting progress pics.

I'm in the planning stages for my SQ setup, and building a parts list. If you had any guidance, it seems like we're on similar paths.

These 4 items would be stashed in a case:

12V input ATX power supply with buck-boost (or similar)
http://www.mini-box.com/DCDC-USB-200?sc=8&category=981

MiniDSP 2x8
http://www.minidsp.com/products/mini...2-x-in-8-x-out

41Hz AMP9 (low profile) for mids and woofers. Made one before, and it's very possible for the patient among us.
http://shop.41hz.com/shop/item.asp?catid=13&itemid=27

41Hz AMP32 for tweeters
http://shop.41hz.com/shop/item.asp?catid=42&itemid=38


And a couple class D amps for the requisite sub-bass in stereo would be mounted on-box so that I could easily remove the setup for AutoX days. I saw a removeable setup at USACi Finals that used massive quick disconnects:
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=263-112

Drivers would be 7" Dayton RS180, 2" enclosed Dayton RS52, 1" Vifa XT25SC. All carry over from past projects, but should do well in this application.

[rupert]

Originally Posted by Shankenstein

Howdy WolfSong! I like the direction of your project, so please keep posting progress pics.

I'm in the planning stages for my SQ setup, and building a parts list. If you had any guidance, it seems like we're on similar paths.

These 4 items would be stashed in a case:

12V input ATX power supply with buck-boost (or similar)
http://www.mini-box.com/DCDC-USB-200?sc=8&category=981

MiniDSP 2x8
http://www.minidsp.com/products/mini...2-x-in-8-x-out

41Hz AMP9 (low profile) for mids and woofers. Made one before, and it's very possible for the patient among us.
http://shop.41hz.com/shop/item.asp?catid=13&itemid=27

41Hz AMP32 for tweeters
http://shop.41hz.com/shop/item.asp?catid=42&itemid=38


And a couple class D amps for the requisite sub-bass in stereo would be mounted on-box so that I could easily remove the setup for AutoX days. I saw a removeable setup at USACi Finals that used massive quick disconnects:
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=263-112

Drivers would be 7" Dayton RS180, 2" enclosed Dayton RS52, 1" Vifa XT25SC. All carry over from past projects, but should do well in this application.

I'm not gonna lie, those are some great links! I've read about the MiniDSP on DIYMA, but the other links could be useful some day.

[Shankenstein]

Thanks Rupert!

If we get a few people pounding away at MiniDSP, we could get some really useful information. Crossover points for great imaging, time align settings, creative mounting locations, power supply necessity, etc.

I might just buy some cheapo Alpine A/B amps and scrap the "build your own T amps" option. Guaranteed quality and less blood loss during toroid winding.

BTW, you rock for maintaining the Audio Directory thread! Good to see my argumentative discussion from a few months ago made your list.