HPDE: Where, When and Who With?

[EAGLE5]

Originally Posted by Kostamojen

As of right now, the suspension/grip and brakes far exceed the power of the car. In the hairpins, I couldn't break traction, and the car is far too forgiving because its so well setup. Its the point where the car NEEDS power to keep up with the rest of it...

I'm not concerned about lap times as much as I'm concerned about having fun. I don't be being a hooligan or anything like that, I mean being able to enjoy the car. I would indeed gain a couple seconds a lap with more power, but its not really the point.

Well, as mentioned, the next step is put money into power, or get a car that already has everything... Its a lot of fiddling to get a reliable 300-400hp with the twins.

My driving is about as good as its going to get, I doubt I'll ever be able to do more than a couple track days a year or a couple auto crosses. Plus, I can't learn how to drive a car with more power until I have more power, I've driven under powered cars all my adult life so I'm pretty well rehearsed there.

Go get yourself an M3. Driving a car with big power is not hard. You just have to control the throttle more, for longer, and shifting isn't as big a deal. Then everything happens faster and costs more. I would like a more powerful car for the street but not the track.

[The Racers Line]

Originally Posted by Kostamojen

As of right now, the suspension/grip and brakes far exceed the power of the car. In the hairpins, I couldn't break traction, and the car is far too forgiving because its so well setup. Its the point where the car NEEDS power to keep up with the rest of it...

I can tell you right now, when I first started tracking my silver FRS, I felt the same way, but I was very wrong. These cars are sooooooo capable with little power upgrades and chassis work. There are a quite few guys in 86 Cup that are proof of that.

Like you mentioned though, you aren't driving at your full limit, which is perfectly fine. It has taken me a while to even drive at 8/10's after a nasty crash I had last year. The thing is though, finding the car's limit and your limit are two very different things. I think the trouble you are having is that you are at your limit and the car really has a TON more to give.

If you want to go for more power, I'm happy to help you look at options, but I do strongly believe that you can get more enjoyment out of your car for a bit longer first, without adding 100hp.

Also, I have the same braking setup as you I believe (RR-Racing stage 2 with BP20's) My brakes are dead silent on track, you need to get and keep heat in them. Another indication that you can go a lot harder!

I promise you can get the car to lose grip, even if it means overheating the tires!

Start at 2:28 to about 2:40

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrjjKvT6-as"]The Racers Line FRS @ Thunderhill 5 Mile 5 30 16 - YouTube[/ame]

[Kostamojen]

Originally Posted by The Racers Line

but I do strongly believe that you can get more enjoyment out of your car for a bit longer first, without adding 100hp.

Ive had the car for three years now. Ran it with a full exhaust and OFT for a year too. My big problem is that I feel like I actually am at the max enjoyment level for the car as it is :p

Also, I have the same braking setup as you I believe (RR-Racing stage 2 with BP20's) My brakes are dead silent on track, you need to get and keep heat in them. Another indication that you can go a lot harder!

I think its because of the DBA rotors... I think my kit was one of the first to use those instead of the previous Stoptech (I think) rotors. I actually hit some brake fade once or twice later in the day and you can see the ABS kick in a couple times going into the hairpins. Ive done all the brake in procedure both by the instructions and far beyond the instructions, Ive pretty much given up on fixing the squeal and If I dont sell the car ill buy the new Perfirmance Pack 2017 brakes and sell these.

[The Racers Line]

Originally Posted by Kostamojen

Ive had the car for three years now. Ran it with a full exhaust and OFT for a year too. My big problem is that I feel like I actually am at the max enjoyment level for the car as it is :p


I think its because of the DBA rotors... I think my kit was one of the first to use those instead of the previous Stoptech (I think) rotors. I actually hit some brake fade once or twice later in the day and you can see the ABS kick in a couple times going into the hairpins. Ive done all the brake in procedure both by the instructions and far beyond the instructions, Ive pretty much given up on fixing the squeal and If I dont sell the car ill buy the new Perfirmance Pack 2017 brakes and sell these.

I've got the DBA rotors up front too. I have the first full kit they released. Are you using the pedal dance mode? These brakes are actually almost TOO strong as they cause ABS to come on very early.

[Kostamojen]

Originally Posted by jsimon7777

Driving a car with big power is not hard. You just have to control the throttle more, for longer, and shifting isn't as big a deal.

Thats another problem for me... Throttle input is missing big time. I dont have to be cautious at all with the throttle, just bang on it on exit 100% and thats it. I'd like to be able to add oversteer of need be and do more fone control with the throttle/wheel to control it. I havent learned anything with that outside of video games.

[Kostamojen]

Originally Posted by The Racers Line

I've got the DBA rotors up front too. I have the first full kit they released. Are you using the pedal dance mode? These brakes are actually almost TOO strong as they cause ABS to come on very early.

The couple times ive used the dance the car goes into ice mode when braking and the pedal falls out from under me. I havent noticed the ABS kicking in early.

[EAGLE5]

Originally Posted by Kostamojen

Thats another problem for me... Throttle input is missing big time. I dont have to be cautious at all with the throttle, just bang on it on exit 100% and thats it. I'd like to be able to add oversteer of need be and do more fone control with the throttle/wheel to control it. I havent learned anything with that outside of video games.

You spent all that money eliminating power oversteer and now you want power oversteer? Go pick up some stock 2013 or '14 FR-S suspension. Give a little camber to the front. Then you'll have all the power oversteer you need, as long as you're in the proper gear.

The FR-S is a car that lives on the throttle throughout every single corner. My mind is 75% on the throttle when I'm cornering. That's the entire point of the car, IMHO. If I wanted to go fast, I'd buy a race-prepped Civic for cheap.

[Kostamojen]

Originally Posted by jsimon7777

You spent all that money eliminating power oversteer and now you want power oversteer? Go pick up some stock 2013 or '14 FR-S suspension. Give a little camber to the front. Then you'll have all the power oversteer you need, as long as you're in the proper gear.

I'm guessing you are including the stock wheels/tires with that... Otherwise it would still be over tired with the RE71Rs.

The problem with the stock setup is that it was slow... Also quite ugly :P

I ran the car for awhile with a C-stock tyoe setup with a fsb, camber bolts and frs rear springs. Drove really well, so well in fact thats what I was trying to duplicate with the better wheels/tires and coilovers. I succeeded but the tires are too good as mentioned.

[EAGLE5]

Originally Posted by Kostamojen

I'm guessing you are including the stock wheels/tires with that... Otherwise it would still be over tired with the RE71Rs.

The problem with the stock setup is that it was slow... Also quite ugly :P

I ran the car for awhile with a C-stock tyoe setup with a fsb, camber bolts and frs rear springs. Drove really well, so well in fact thats what I was trying to duplicate with the better wheels/tires and coilovers. I succeeded but the tires are too good as mentioned.

Just went through your suspension thread: http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2625249

Ummm... WTF, man? You don't make no sense!

Autocross tires on HPDE? Check!
Overly wide tires to raise lap times? Check!
Frankenstein suspension setup? Check!
Ignores advice of been-there-done-that, much-faster drivers? Check!
Belief in own amazing suspension setup skills? Check!
Blaming the car instead of the driver? Check!

[Kostamojen]

Originally Posted by jsimon7777

Ummm... WTF, man? You don't make no sense!

Autocross tires on HPDE? Check!
Overly wide tires to raise lap times? Check!

I've daily driven autox tires for like 10 years now, nothing new here. Tires are the most important thing this car needs if you want to do anything other than low speed power slides.

I went with the traditional 17x9 245/40 autox setup because of forum advice and witnessing properly setup cars in person. I have zero regrets with the current wheel/tire choice after going through 4 other wheel/tire sets.

Frankenstein suspension setup? Check!
Belief in own amazing suspension setup skills? Check!

Yes, it took me 3 years to find the proper f/r ballance while maintaining a comfortable ride for daily driving as this is my only car... And yes I'm proud of that.

Ignores advice of been-there-done-that, much-faster drivers? Check!

So far the advice is I need to drive 9/10ths INTO corners in order to go faster with the car as it is... Isn't that exactly the situation most people wreck during HPDE's?

I'm OK with saving the 9/10ths+ driving for autox where its safe, and I know I could risk going faster but Its not a competition so whats the point of taking that risk?

There are a couple of corners I could have certainly used more advice on braking and turn-in points, that can be for next time.

Blaming the car instead of the driver? Check!

The car is fine, minus the power. Hence why thats the next step with the car.

Yes I could improve, but yes its risky too... I could easily have wound up like the other ft86 member who totaled his car in the second run of the day. I'm OK with that and do plan to go back again eventually.

If I had a dedicated racecar and plenty of money and insurance, then things would be different. I might actually wind up in an even worse situation soon with no garage to even work on the car, which is another reason why im concerned about major power mods.

[EAGLE5]

Originally Posted by Kostamojen

I've daily driven autox tires for like 10 years now, nothing new here. Tires are the most important thing this car needs if you want to do anything other than low speed power slides.

I went with the traditional 17x9 245/40 autox setup because of forum advice and witnessing properly setup cars in person. I have zero regrets with the current wheel/tire choice after going through 4 other wheel/tire sets.

Yes, it took me 3 years to find the proper f/r ballance while maintaining a comfortable ride for daily driving as this is my only car... And yes I'm proud of that.

So far the advice is I need to drive 9/10ths INTO corners in order to go faster with the car as it is... Isn't that exactly the situation most people wreck during HPDE's?

I'm OK with saving the 9/10ths+ driving for autox where its safe, and I know I could risk going faster but Its not a competition so whats the point of taking that risk?

There are a couple of corners I could have certainly used more advice on braking and turn-in points, that can be for next time.

The car is fine, minus the power. Hence why thats the next step with the car.

Yes I could improve, but yes its risky too... I could easily have wound up like the other ft86 member who totaled his car in the second run of the day. I'm OK with that and do plan to go back again eventually.

If I had a dedicated racecar and plenty of money and insurance, then things would be different. I might actually wind up in an even worse situation soon with no garage to even work on the car, which is another reason why im concerned about major power mods.

So your goal with track days is to go slow in the corners and accelerate on the straights?

[Kostamojen]

Originally Posted by jsimon7777

So your goal with track days is to go slow in the corners and accelerate on the straights?

8/10ths into corners isnt fast enough for you?

For reference, here I am exceeding 9/10ths with this corner, you can see the car get visibly upset:

[ame]http://youtu.be/bCoqQL4Iswg[/ame]

[EAGLE5]

I like how you explain the corner in terms of tenths. I'm not really sure what you mean by that, but whatever.

[Kostamojen]

Originally Posted by jsimon7777

I like how you explain the corner in terms of tenths. I'm not really sure what you mean by that, but whatever.

http://winhpde.com/tenths-scale/