Got a track related question? I'll try to answer.

[Casey10s]

Originally Posted by Toyarzee

Trying to go uphill after braking and while accelerating right at the torque dip is no bueno... get into second and rev that bitch would be my knee jerk response. Could you explain how you mean you lose time in this practice?

I'm sure other track rats will chime in with more insight

When I have dropped to second and come up the hill, I was probably going 5 mph or slower when I reached the top of the hill than if I took it at 3rd. When I had an instructor in the car, he thought 3rd gear was better than 2nd gear in that I was carrying more speed (as I mentioned) once I got to the top of the hill. The hills are not long but steep.

[Pat]

Getting higher-performance tires (r-comps) will let you carry more speed through the turn, thereby keeping you higher in the rev range and above the torque dip. The same goes for suspension.

[EAGLE5]

Buys a lowish-power car. Mods it for more power. Still wants more power.

Dude, get another car. I suggest a Mustang or a Camaro. They're more your style. No matter how badly you drive the corners, you can pass people in the straights.

[Deep Six]

Flex Fuel kit will get you quite a bit more low end grunt with E85 for your JRSC setup.

[Casey10s]

Originally Posted by jsimon7777

Buys a lowish-power car. Mods it for more power. Still wants more power.

Dude, get another car. I suggest a Mustang or a Camaro. They're more your style. No matter how badly you drive the corners, you can pass people in the straights.

Nowhere have I said I wanted more power.

I am trying to figure out my options to improve going through this section of track. The car is fine elsewhere and horsepower is not a problem. I think the torque curve is the problem. Some options that are helpful are tires, suspension, E85, etc. I was hoping maybe some more input on driving tips but maybe that will come later. In talking with the instructors, even the Corvette people complain in these sections. It just seems it affects the twins more than their cars.

Your post was not very useful.

[Icecreamtruk]

Originally Posted by Casey10s

Nowhere have I said I wanted more power.

I am trying to figure out my options to improve going through this section of track. The car is fine elsewhere and horsepower is not a problem. I think the torque curve is the problem. Some options that are helpful are tires, suspension, E85, etc. I was hoping maybe some more input on driving tips but maybe that will come later. In talking with the instructors, even the Corvette people complain in these sections. It just seems it affects the twins more than their cars.

Your post was not very useful.

If it affects everyone, why do you worry then? You would have to accept the fact that the gearing on your car is not tailored for that track, in fact, it isnt for any track, only custom made gears considering every possible aspect of the car will be, and they will be different for every track.

Now, on to your problem. I have the exact same one in a "bus stop" style turn (straight into a very very tight chicane, exactly like turn 1 at monza). My 2nd gear is to short to shift into it during breaking since Im still droppping speed by the time I get to the apex of the right turn (its a left->right chicane).

I found two ways of dealing with this, shift into third while breaking, then shift into second mid turn, difficult to pull off, and since im running on semi-slicks at 1.4Gs sometimes I cant grab the gear lever on time, or I have to hold on for dear life (no seat or harness, standart seat for me, with standart suspension, so lots of roll). When I pull it off, its around .2 to .3 seconds faster than method two, which is staying in third the whole time.

For now, I accept the time loss and stay on third, I will try again on second when I get a proper racing seat and harness and I dont have to hold on for dear life during turns. I say you try entering the turn in third like you would normally, then shift to second right before the apex, be carefull as hitting the apex, rev-match and downshifting at the same time aint no child's play.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Casey10s

Nowhere have I said I wanted more power.

I am trying to figure out my options to improve going through this section of track. The car is fine elsewhere and horsepower is not a problem. I think the torque curve is the problem. Some options that are helpful are tires, suspension, E85, etc. I was hoping maybe some more input on driving tips but maybe that will come later. In talking with the instructors, even the Corvette people complain in these sections. It just seems it affects the twins more than their cars.

Your post was not very useful.

You can either increase output, or increase momentum. Either way, an uphill section will always make your car "slower". If it affects everyone equally, I would recommend you just accept it as normal.

If you're looking for a direction or excuse to mod your car, give me some more feedback on what exactly you want, and I can guide you in the right direction.

[EAGLE5]

Originally Posted by Casey10s

Nowhere have I said I wanted more power.

I am trying to figure out my options to improve going through this section of track. The car is fine elsewhere and horsepower is not a problem. I think the torque curve is the problem. Some options that are helpful are tires, suspension, E85, etc. I was hoping maybe some more input on driving tips but maybe that will come later. In talking with the instructors, even the Corvette people complain in these sections. It just seems it affects the twins more than their cars.

Your post was not very useful.

Your whole post was about how you want to go faster up a hill, but you don't want more power? Under the curve power is still power. Torque is power by a different name. It's an uphill. Physics. Not complicated. You want more power. That's fine. No judging. You'll be happier in a car with a V8 and/or big turbos. 500HP in a 3000lbs car will make you feel plenty fast as you charge up the hill.

As for driving tips, I doubt there's anything we can say that the instructor didn't. You have no video, not even a track name. I assume BeaverRun.

[Lynxis]

Originally Posted by Casey10s

Nowhere have I said I wanted more power.

I am trying to figure out my options to improve going through this section of track. The car is fine elsewhere and horsepower is not a problem. I think the torque curve is the problem. Some options that are helpful are tires, suspension, E85, etc. I was hoping maybe some more input on driving tips but maybe that will come later. In talking with the instructors, even the Corvette people complain in these sections. It just seems it affects the twins more than their cars.

Your post was not very useful.

I know this pain all too well. I'm still 100% stock power (torque dip) and I have a few corners at my local track that have caused me problems because I can't take them quite fast enough to stay in the power band in 3rd gear (right around 4000rpm) but dropping down to 2nd gear is awkward because I will hit 7400 in 2nd long before I can get the car straightened out again for the shift back up to 3rd. I'm hoping that running a faster tire next year will allow me to take the corner fast enough to keep the rpm up high enough that I don't fall out of the power band in 3rd.

[Toyarzee]

Originally Posted by Lynxis

I'm hoping that running a faster tire next year will allow me to take the corner fast enough to keep the rpm up high enough that I don't fall out of the power band in 3rd.

Proper footwork, rev matching and some quick hands always helps, but as Mike said, momentum baby... R-comps was the best mod I brought to the tracks hands down. No power mods necessary.

But for Casey, also dont be afraid to beat on your girl a bit and wring every bit of power in that upper power band. These little high strung motors beg for it

[Lynxis]

Originally Posted by Toyarzee

Proper footwork, rev matching and some quick hands always helps, but as Mike said, momentum baby... R-comps was the best mod I brought to the tracks hands down. No power mods necessary.

But for Casey, also dont be afraid to beat on your girl a bit and wring every bit of power in that upper power band. These little high strung motors beg for it

Yeah I've got a decent heel-toe rev-match, if anything my weakness is probably my upshift which is a little lazy and a relative novice like me shouldn't be shifting mid corner anyway. While I was there, a friend suggested slowing down more and apexing later for those corners so I'm pointed more straight and can shift at the right time but I have to shed too much speed in that case and I found my time suffered half a second by doing so compared to just running through as hard as I could in third and waiting out the torque dip.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Casey10s

Nowhere have I said I wanted more power.

Your post was not very useful.

Not to pile on here but what responses were you expecting here?

You posted an incredibly generic scenario 'how do I increase speed through this slow section?'

Mike covered it all: increase output (power), increase momentum (grip or technique). That's it, that's all you can do to go faster.

Without video or detailed setup notes (tire temps, alignment, suspension rates and choices), nobody is going to tell you anything revolutionary.

The only useful thing you offered was you're down to 4k rpm, which is out of the powerband so people told you to downshift, you immediately said that doesn't work.



Sorry to be so blunt but, garbage in = garbage out.


In order to make my post 'useful' I second the notion of downshifting to 2nd if you can't keep the rpms up over 4.5k, I would absolutely NOT reccommend looking down at your tachometer mid corner, even a cheap laptimer like Harry's with a bluetooth dongle or Torque app will help you figure out if you can find the momentum to keep it in 3rd and whether or not shifting to 2nd is actually slower as you feel it is. I totally understand the sentiment, same thing happens going up the hill to the corkscrew and then down again through it at Laguna Seca, revs drop low enough to justify 3rd on the left going up and 2nd on the downhill but it's so quick that for us amateurs it's often better to keep it in 4th/3rd respectively even though it seems to bog and be slower than 'other cars'.

Edit: If you're struggling with the 2-3 change, put some effort into the footwork on the down and upshift, with practice it shouldn't slow you down provided you can keep it in 2nd long enough. I can totally understand if the downshift only buys you a few tenths in the powerband and 3rd is actually better now that I think about it. But that's the point of recommending a datalog.

[Whooosah]

I've been in a similar situation on stock power. The chicane at pir right left can be entered around 55-50 on ok tires..but the immediate left slows a bit and I can only exit around 40-45 in 3rd is right in the torque dip. When you mash the throttle the car goes nowhere...I tried entering slower in second, quick down shift mid chicane, etc..I posted my quickest time just doing it all in 3rd and keeping as much momentum I can and suffering through the torque dip. I'm still a learning at the track fwiw but I've watched very quick drivers do the same with similar momentum cars.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Whooosah

I've been in a similar situation on stock power. The chicane at pir right left can be entered around 55-50 on ok tires..but the immediate left slows a bit and I can only exit around 40-45 in 3rd is right in the torque dip. When you mash the throttle the car goes nowhere...I tried entering slower in second, quick down shift mid chicane, etc..I posted my quickest time just doing it all in 3rd and keeping as much momentum I can and suffering through the torque dip. I'm still a learning at the track fwiw but I've watched very quick drivers do the same with similar momentum cars.

Often times, keeping it as simple as possible yields a better result, in this case, eliminating a shift.

Focus on your shifting technique, make it natural, and when you get to the level of mastery where the shift itself requires zero thought, you'll b e faster with the downshift.

When chasing lap times, use 3rd. When working on personal improvement, downshift.