Wheel studs. Yes, again, but with a twist

[autoracer86]

Originally Posted by ZDan

I just got ARP wheel studs, short/factory-length for my '23...
How tough is installation, do hubs need to be removed?

I am not sure if this applies to standard length but I did see @DocWalt said he had to remove the hub to do studs on his 23.

[Ohio Enthusiast]

Originally Posted by autoracer86

I am not sure if this applies to standard length but I did see @DocWalt said he had to remove the hub to do studs on his 23.

I seem to remember that the 2nd gen BRZ aluminum knuckle is in the way for front studs removal.

[Code Monkey]

It is not.

[DocWalt]

Stock length studs are totally doable, but extended studs are not.


It's not exactly difficult to remove the front hub at that point anyway.

[cmiovino]

I've had 3 Imprezas, one of which is a WRX. All are old. All never had any lug nut stud problems and I even swapped wheels on the WRX at autocross events for about 2-3 years consistently about 20 times a year. I reckon the WRX has at least 200+ on/offs with the wheels over the last 20 years.

However with my 2017 BRZ, within about 15 times changing the wheels, to my surprise, one time a rear lug was taking way too much pressure to remove and I knew it was crossthreaded or something. A few of the others were leaving shaving and didn't feel right either.

No idea what it is with the BRZ studs. They're not the same material as other Subaru studs are for sure. I'm extra careful, don't overtighten, always thread on by hand first, and use low settings to slowly get them on with an impact. I've done this method with all cars, mostly Subarus, and never had an issue.

Switched to ARP stock-ish legth studs with Gorilla lug nuts and haven't looked back. They thread together great.

I will say those acorn Subaru lug nuts on just about every Subaru in the last 25 years tend to be... eh, just not great. I have a set of TireRack basic ones I got used probably 10 years ago and use those over the multiple sets of stock ones I have for my WRX. I didn't use the stock ones on the ARP studs at all as a precaution. Not to mention they're kind of a pain in the butt to handle and thread on because they're not long enough IMO.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by cmiovino

Switched to ARP stock-ish legth studs with Gorilla lug nuts and haven't looked back. They thread together great.

I should point out, I ran ARP studs with the factory lug nuts for a couple of years, then wiped out a couple of them at Watkins Glen! I believe that the lug nuts got deformed and buggered up, and then wiped out part of the ARP threads upon forced removal.

Now I run ARP studs with aluminum Gorilla lug nuts. So hopefully if things do go bad the nuts will strip out without damaging the studs much...

Anyway, long/short, it's not just the OEM studs that suck, the lug nuts are also a bit crap...

[blsfrs]

Originally Posted by ZDan

I just got ARP wheel studs, short/factory-length for my '23...
How tough is installation, do hubs need to be removed?

Install isn't bad. There is a special tool for the purists, but you can back the old ones out with a moderate size hammer and run the new ones in with an impact.

I bought a couple of regular lug size nuts. One for a "crown" for banging the old one out (to preserve the threads) and a second nut for running them in.

[Ohio Enthusiast]

Replaced the studs yesterday. I tested the rear lug nuts before the replacement with the cordless ratchet vs. by hand vs. a cordless impact wrench (DeWalt DCF921). The cordless ratchet again left some metal shavings. By hand and with the impact wrench no metal shavings. For all three methods I broke the lugs loose with a 1/2" manual ratchet.

ARP (stock length) in the rear went fine with a cheap ball joint separator. Popped one of the parking brake shoes to have enough room for the separator to push the new studs in. Fronts were more of a hassle with the separator struggling to remove the old studs and not doing anything to push the H&R studs in (later I read a mention for WRX that H&R use a slightly different knurl than stock studs). Resorted to the tried and true hammer-out/impact-in.
Also grabbed McGard lug nuts (regular hex, kit 84554) and will use an impact to take the nuts off entirely and to spin them back on for future wheel swaps and wheel-off service.

PS still using the cordless ratchet for the brake caliper bolts and it works very well there. No noticeable metal shavings or damage to the bolts. I conclude that the stock wheel studs are soft and that the cordless ratchet is damaging them.

[Clipdat]

Thanks for the detailed follow up on this. Fascinating that the cordless ratchet tool would do this. I'm sure you are also surprised, as nothing about it's action/behavior during this particular use case would make you think "Oh no, this might damage the threads!"

Anyway, glad you got it all sorted!

[new2subaru]

I had stock studs on my car for 7-8 years with wheels on off hundreds of times with no issue. I started using a M12 a couple of years ago and still didn't have any issues. It has a feature that will allow you to tighten to 10lbs and I'd use a torque wrench from there. I replaced the stock studs with ARP studs this year. I figured it was long overdue...

I found this article online. Not sure if the thread pitch has to do with these issues or not.

https://artsautomotive.com/home/art-...aru-lug-studs/

I also read an article how some rattleguns have a weird (pattern?) and can cause galling. I can't seem to find it right now.

What impact do you have?

[Ohio Enthusiast]

Originally Posted by new2subaru

I had stock studs on my car for 7-8 years with wheels on off hundreds of times with no issue.

Yep, I read plenty of owners having zero issues. And plenty of people who had issues after a couple of wheel removals. I'm somewhere in the middle, with 3 years and probably around 30-40 wheel removals before starting to have issues.

I've actually started having some crunchiness in some rear studs before buying the cordless ratchet (when still spinning the nuts by hand all the way), so I would have probably needed to replace the studs even without the extra damage the cordless ratchet.

Originally Posted by new2subaru

I found this article online. Not sure if the thread pitch has to do with these issues or not.

This article is inline with what I've read, but is similar to most other sources in that it gives a bunch of plausible explanations, but can't really explain why some people have issues and others don't for the same use cases (i.e. not overtightening, spinning them by hand, etc.). Perhaps there're significant variations in studs and nuts, or once a small amount of contamination is introduced it quickly snowballs into more severe damage.

Originally Posted by new2subaru

I also read an article how some rattleguns have a weird (pattern?) and can cause galling. I can't seem to find it right now.

Interesting. This would confirm my theory about the way the cordless ratchet affects the lugs (how the torque is delivered to the nuts).

Originally Posted by new2subaru

What impact do you have?

DeWalt DCF921.