Next Gen BRZ thoughts

[gravitylover]

It was an obscure reference that they got lucky with but I bet it would be more successful (rather than sufficient) if the reference was to the Celica not a Corolla variant. The car is so much more similar to what the Celica was and now with the release of the Supra it's even more relevant. Drifting as a category doesn't count for much more than a curiosity for most "car people" and not at all for the masses so using a name that they're familiar with is a better formula unless the plan is to keep the car obscure and marginally profitable.

[KR-S]

Originally Posted by gravitylover

It was an obscure reference that they got lucky with but I bet it would be more successful (rather than sufficient) if the reference was to the Celica not a Corolla variant. The car is so much more similar to what the Celica was and now with the release of the Supra it's even more relevant. Drifting as a category doesn't count for much more than a curiosity for most "car people" and not at all for the masses so using a name that they're familiar with is a better formula unless the plan is to keep the car obscure and marginally profitable.

I'm not so sure about that. If we're talking about the RWD Celicas from the 70s-80s then I would argue that they are even more obscure than the AE86.

With the rest of the Celica generations, there aren't that many similarities beyond the small engine and being light.

In the end, I think Toyota could have gotten away with globally labelling the car as "FR-S" and it would have just as been successful.

[86MLR]

AE86 lasted 5 years

Celica lasted 36 years

Everybody knows someone who had a Celica

I know no one who has owned a AE86

Kids watching Manga has alot to answer for.

Why was the AE86 a pick for drifters, they were cheap, light, old rwd platforms that cars and parts were cheap and readily available, same as the S chassis, cheap rwd.

In 20 years time the S13-15 will be collectable, if they haven't all been crashed.

Meh

[KR-S]

Originally Posted by 86MLR

AE86 lasted 5 years

Celica lasted 36 years

Everybody knows someone who had a Celica

I know no one who has owned a AE86

Kids watching Manga has alot to answer for.

Why was the AE86 a pick for drifters, they were cheap, light, old rwd platforms that cars and parts were cheap and readily available, same as the S chassis, cheap rwd.

In 20 years time the S13-15 will be collectable, if they haven't all been crashed.

Meh

I'll probably be in my 60s by the time the FR-S becomes a collectible.

Maybe 40s at best, assuming people keep cutting up their twins to put them Rocket Raccoon V69 kits on them.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by KR-S 86

I'll probably be in my 60s by the time the FR-S becomes a collectible.

Maybe 40s at best, assuming people keep cutting up their twins to put them Rocket Raccoon V69 kits on them.

By the time these cars become "collectible" you will only be able to drive it on a closed course because it will not be able to communicate with all the self driving cars on the road and gas will only be available at the specialty fossil fuel boutique for $186 a gallon.

[gravitylover]

Originally Posted by KR-S 86

I'm not so sure about that. If we're talking about the RWD Celicas from the 70s-80s then I would argue that they are even more obscure than the AE86.

With the rest of the Celica generations, there aren't that many similarities beyond the small engine and being light.

In the end, I think Toyota could have gotten away with globally labelling the car as "FR-S" and it would have just as been successful.

How old are you? If ~30 or so that would explain your misplaced love for an under the radar Corolla that really wasn't a very good car when it was new. Please get over yourself and move forward.

[OldSkoolToys]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

By the time these cars become "collectible" you will only be able to drive it on a closed course because it will not be able to communicate with all the self driving cars on the road and gas will only be available at the specialty fossil fuel boutique for $186 a gallon.

At the same time, horse drawn carriages, bicycles, motorcycles, and those tri-wheel abominations, will be struck as illegal on public roadways as well.


Not a chance in the U.S. Canada, however, sure.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by OldSkoolToys

At the same time, horse drawn carriages, bicycles, motorcycles, and those tri-wheel abominations, will be struck as illegal on public roadways as well.


Not a chance in the U.S. Canada, however, sure.

Horses will be a food source, motorcycles will have the same electronics as cars and bicycles will be a a hover device (nonocycles?)

LOL the point I was making in a quasi sarcastic and exaggerated manner was that it will be a long LONG time (if ever) before these cars are a "collectible" beyond the have a second one for play time point.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by gravitylover

How old are you? If ~30 or so that would explain your misplaced love for an under the radar Corolla that really wasn't a very good car when it was new. Please get over yourself and move forward.

That damned food delivery cartoon has a whole generation convinced that the AE86 Corolla was ell know and loved. I bet there wasn't 1.000 people that even heard of it in North America back when it existed. Even they probably didn't refer to it as an "AE86" at the time.

[OldSkoolToys]

Originally Posted by gravitylover

How old are you? If ~30 or so that would explain your misplaced love for an under the radar Corolla that really wasn't a very good car when it was new. Please get over yourself and move forward.

The Celica was a watered down nameplate when it faded. Hairdresser car. The last GOOD Celica to hit U.S. shores that didn't have the "All-Trac" badge on it was the T160 series GT-S, which came with a real engine, the 3S-GE. The last year of that series was 1988. Afterwards, the GT-S and GT's got the Camry 5S-FE. The GT-S' of the final generation were decent cars, but nothing exceptional, with the 2ZZ being the only saving grace for it. The LAST thing people think of when they think of Celica (non All-Trac) is sports car. Sporty looking car sure, could get away with that, but they were not performance cars.



FWIW, the AE86 GT-S was a technologically superior car performance wise when it was released in 85 over the Celica GT-S. The 4A-GE was like sci-fi tech compared to the dated 22RE, and I'm not even trying to talk down to that legendary motor. It just wasn't very sporty.

[OldSkoolToys]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

That damned food delivery cartoon has a whole generation convinced that the AE86 Corolla was ell know and loved. I bet there wasn't 1.000 people that even heard of it in North America back when it existed. Even they probably didn't refer to it as an "AE86" at the time.

In the 80's? Actually it was known to auto writers and journalists who's heads weren't in the sand. To normal people, very little I suppose. But we're not in the 80's. We're not talking about naming something a Celica in 1986. This is about if naming it Celica would've changed anything in 2012, after that name had been dragged through shit infested waters for 2 decades in the U.S. market.


August 20th, 1984, Autoweek, on stands the week I was born.




I have that magazine. Article is very glowing of the car. Hell they even called it the downhill racer, 10 years before Initial D came out.


You can invoke the old "RWD Celica's" all you want, but the only people that even remember those car's are old blokes, or enthusiasts like me. To the mainstream potential buyer, a Celica in their mind isn't what the current twins are.

[gravitylover]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

That damned food delivery cartoon has a whole generation convinced that the AE86 Corolla was ell know and loved. I bet there wasn't 1.000 people that even heard of it in North America back when it existed. Even they probably didn't refer to it as an "AE86" at the time.

Nah the few of us that even knew of it just called it the GT-S.

Originally Posted by OldSkoolToys

The Celica was a watered down nameplate when it faded. Hairdresser car. The last GOOD Celica to hit U.S. shores that didn't have the "All-Trac" badge on it was the T160 series GT-S, which came with a real engine, the 3S-GE. The last year of that series was 1988. Afterwards, the GT-S and GT's got the Camry 5S-FE. The GT-S' of the final generation were decent cars, but nothing exceptional, with the 2ZZ being the only saving grace for it. The LAST thing people think of when they think of Celica (non All-Trac) is sports car. Sporty looking car sure, could get away with that, but they were not performance cars.

FWIW, the AE86 GT-S was a technologically superior car performance wise when it was released in 85 over the Celica GT-S. The 4A-GE was like sci-fi tech compared to the dated 22RE, and I'm not even trying to talk down to that legendary motor. It just wasn't very sporty.

And outside of a small percentage of 86/BRZ owners you'd probably see the same people buying these. It's small, efficient, affordable and sporty hence... Celica. I get the 86mm bore reference and the tech aspect so maybe I'm just too old

[KittenMittens]

Looking into possibly getting a used BRZ. Should I wait until the next gen gets announced for the used market to take a dip in price? How confident are we that this will be ready for the 2021 model year? I mean there have been rumors of a BRZ STI practically every year since 2013, and none of it came to fruition.

[Lantanafrs2]

Originally Posted by KittenMittens

Looking into possibly getting a used BRZ. Should I wait until the next gen gets announced for the used market to take a dip in price? How confident are we that this will be ready for the 2021 model year? I mean there have been rumors of a BRZ STI practically every year since 2013, and none of it came to fruition.

That's impossible to answer