12-07-2013, 09:36 AM | #127 |
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So why do you still have a BRZ if you dislike it so much?
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12-07-2013, 10:01 PM | #128 | |
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Woooowwwwww.
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12-07-2013, 10:46 PM | #129 |
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I think he just likes to voice his opinion.
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12-08-2013, 11:17 AM | #130 | |
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It is annoying that demographics affects car design so much. Because if this designed in "defect" this car will top out quite quickly in the market. Because the car lacks power to overcome even the modest stock tire grip for most drivers they will not experience the defect until they make an emergency maneuver in the wet or snow or ice. Apparently, even then most of you won't know why you crashed. The car oversteers far too easily. This can be "corrected" by fitting better summer tires but only for dry roads. If Subaru ever does offer a forced induction version they will have to correct this fault. The car is undrivable in the wet or snow or on ice. It ought not to be. If it were designed properly for real drivers it would not do this. It would also then be easier to drive and faster. These are demonstrable facts, not just my opinion. I can demonstrate the flaw in the chassis any time you like. Wear a set of depends though if you decide to take me up on this. |
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12-08-2013, 11:19 AM | #131 |
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12-08-2013, 07:32 PM | #132 | |
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12-09-2013, 08:30 AM | #133 |
i'm sorry, what?
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the car is touchy on the throttle yes
but it's also very controllable so i don't see a problem... had a lot of fun this morning navigating the GTA's first snowfall. respect the weather conditions train your right foot stay in higher gears and... pratice!
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12-09-2013, 11:51 AM | #134 | |||||||
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I'm speechless, SO much mis-information...
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An electronic diff is a system that uses the brakes to mimic the behaviour of an LSD, so if a wheel starts to unload the computer will brake it to shift power to the wheel with grip. As for the clutch, I find it drives just fine and isn't that abrupt at all. It doesn't have a ton of feedback, but it's plenty easy to modulate. Quote:
Traction control limits the tires spinning and doesn't care about yaw at all. The TC system limits power output to keep the wheels from spinning, not the brakes. Stability control (VSC) uses the brakes to keep the car on the intended course but doesn't care about tires spinning, just the relative yaw angle of the car compared to the steering input. You can test these out in a snowy parking lot very easily. Leave both systems fully on and try to accelerate fast in a straight line, the TC will cut power but VSC won't intervene. Now push the TC button (don't hold it) and the VSC button (you'll have three lights on the dash lit) and try to do a donut. You can get lots of wheelspin, but the VSC system will keep you from fully spinning. Then hold the TC button in for a few seconds to disable TC and VSC and try again totally unaided. Some cars bundle them together in your ability to disable them, but they're still two systems working in different ways for different reasons. Quote:
Have you actually driven a Cayman in the snow, or just going off what you read? I've driven a 911 in the snow, and my FR-S is better behaved. The 911 isn't scary, but it's also not what I would call beginner friendly. One thing you need to keep in mind is that 30 years ago cars didn't have anywhere near the dry traction that a modern car does, so the difference in grip between dry pavement and snow is much more noticeable now. Quote:
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Plus, with TC and VSC on it's pretty much impossible to get these cars to spin out. If someone is driving around with the electronic aids off in the ice/snow and haven't experimented with the cars balance in those conditions, then they deserve the unexpected crash. This is my second winter with the car, with zero issues. It's not as much of a tank in heavy snow like an S4 is, but it's also almost 1000lbs lighter without quattro so that's not a shock at all.
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12-09-2013, 01:51 PM | #135 |
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Just experienced my first drive in some decent snow/slush/ice conditions and I gotta say - I'm very impressed.
No car this light with RWD will ever be absolutely perfect in the snow but I was expecting a lot worse... I have Michelin Xice i3s installed on my stock rims and I was easily going around turns, changing lanes etc. in slippery conditions. for the ultimate test - took it for a quick rip in an empty parking lot and couldn't believe how much control I had! I was drifting around light poles as if I were in an RC car I don't know what @Suberman 's beef is but I couldn't find much to complain about with this car in winter driving...Maybe time will tell but it has definitely exceeded my expectations on first impressions
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12-09-2013, 02:52 PM | #136 |
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Wait until we get light and non slush snow in lots. Soooooo fun.
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12-09-2013, 04:42 PM | #137 |
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I used to drive my pops awd suv with winters(overkill I know but better safe than never). The transition between that and the brz wasn't difficult. Obviously isn't as good as the suv in snow but I wasn't expecting it to be as good. It was surprisingly controllable in snow. Better than expected. This is my first winter with a light rwd car that's kind of low. Alot of people complained about rwd cars in the winter so I didn't know what to expect. A bit scared to be honest. As long as your not throttle happy than you'll be fine surviving the winter time. I do have blizzaks on which really do help.
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12-09-2013, 07:43 PM | #138 | |
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Quote:
I have no trouble driving this car I just know how it could be made better. What I'm curious to know is exactly what makes this car so twitchy, and then fix it. The weight distribution is nearly 50/50. The ground clearance is nearly 6 inches. The front wheels have positive camber and the rear wheels have negative camber. Still the car oversteers too easily. |
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12-09-2013, 07:50 PM | #139 |
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For the record an electronic LSD is just ABS based traction control. Technically it works in exactly the same way as a clutchpack type of LSD. The only difference is a clutchpack type without traction control can spin both drive wheels. Electronic LSD are universally programmed to prevent this, for good reason. Unless launch control is also programmed into the stability control.
An electronically controlled LSD is a mechanical LSD (clutch pack type) with electronic control of the clutch pack. Torque vectoring systems also exist. Traction control and stability control are integrated systems in most modern cars. They use one computer and one software program. To achieve stability control they add inputs from a yaw sensor located in the trunk and a steering angle sensor on the steering column. Wheel speeds are taken from the ABS wheel speed sensors. I won't bother expanding on my driving experience. Believe what you wish, doesn't affect me at all. I do think you should remain speechless if you find yourself in that position. Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than break silence and remove all doubt. As Churchill said if Attlee: a modest little man with much to be modest about. |
12-09-2013, 07:54 PM | #140 | |
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My point exactly. |
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