FRS Test Drive from Cayman S / Exige Owners Perspective *WITH PICS*

[Razz]

For steering feel you obviously never driven an RX8. I too felt it was sloppy in the BRZ
For smoothness and feedback the RX8 beats it hands down.
I hated the road noise more than the engine noise which can be fixed easily with cat back and intake.

It makes a great daily driver due to the good gas mileage.

[YW-Slayer]

Rosso, moto, thanks for your comments. They are really appreciated.

I looked at secondhand and new Elises (which I love) as an alternative, but ended up settling on a WRB Mica BRZ, even though the car would only be used as a weekend "driving" car and for very short (15 minute) commutes. The other reason for this is that the local secondhand Elise market is quite restricted in terms of selection, though frankly I think any Elise is a good one. There are just better ones.

My mate has a 2008ish Cayman S which he got for a good deal (still more expensive than the BRZ), so we will probably a bit of swapping once my car arrives and I have run it in. Obviously I wouldn't expect it to beat or equal an Elise/Exige/Cayman in terms of ultimate driving feel, but I approach the prospect of ownership in the belief that it will be the closest thing I can get to them, for the money, and with more seats and practicality!

[csaba]

Originally Posted by Rosso_Corsa

I agree with you that rawness in an engine is fun and inspires character.

However, there is melodic rawness (American V8s, Honda S2000, Integra Type R, etc.) and then there is unmelodic rawness. The FRS's engine, to me, is definitely in the latter category. It just does not sound nice. Like a sewing machine. In the same price category, the Miata has a nicer engine. The 370Z has a nicer engine. They sound better (370Z), feel smoother (Miata), rev happier (Miata) and feel more like instruments rather than appliances.

Just my humble opinion, of course there will be others that love this engine.

370 Z. . Sounds better.? Everywhere I read people says the 370Z engine is rough and loud at high rpm ...

[csaba]

Originally Posted by sdiver68

Great review!

I owned a 2007 Cayman S and now have a Subaru BRZ. IMHO the BRZ has better steering then the Cayman S. Get a manual, delete the engine resonator, put something other than Prius tires on it, drive it without 3 other people in the car and get back to us. Also, I agree on the FR-S interior...take a look at the Subaru Limited for something a little more upmarket.

BTW, congrats on getting 4 people in the car, that's a heck of a feat!

Whatever ! The interior materials not as bed as you guys saying it!

[Rosso_Corsa]

Originally Posted by YW-Slayer

Rosso, moto, thanks for your comments. They are really appreciated.

I looked at secondhand and new Elises (which I love) as an alternative, but ended up settling on a WRB Mica BRZ, even though the car would only be used as a weekend "driving" car and for very short (15 minute) commutes. The other reason for this is that the local secondhand Elise market is quite restricted in terms of selection, though frankly I think any Elise is a good one. There are just better ones.

My mate has a 2008ish Cayman S which he got for a good deal (still more expensive than the BRZ), so we will probably a bit of swapping once my car arrives and I have run it in. Obviously I wouldn't expect it to beat or equal an Elise/Exige/Cayman in terms of ultimate driving feel, but I approach the prospect of ownership in the belief that it will be the closest thing I can get to them, for the money, and with more seats and practicality!

You've got exactly the right attitude.

In the world of cars, you will always get what you pay for. You will get more by spending more on a Cayman. You will get more by spending more on an Elise.

If this were not true -- as some people here seem to believe -- then nobody would spend more than 30k on a car.

However, the law of diminishing returns makes such an incredible case for the FRS. You really are maximizing every penny of your purchase price to prioritize chassis, handling and driving fun. I think you're gonna love your car and won't feel at all like you missed out by not spending the extra for the Lotus or the Porsche.

In my opinion, the interior materials are rubbish and the engine sounds so-so and the steering feel could be better, but when I think about how little this car costs brand spanking new, all of those are small sacrifices to pay for what you get. The chassis, the suspension, the practicality, the fuel economy. You get a LOT for that money. This is the absolute best car in that price range. It is so good that I think it's beaten the Miata as my previous budget driver's car of choice.

Enjoy it!!!

[Pscylo]

That hood looks like a flock of birds got hold of a barrel of skittles and shit all over it.

[Rabble]

Originally Posted by Rosso_Corsa

You've got exactly the right attitude.
In my opinion, the interior materials are rubbish and the engine sounds so-so and the steering feel could be better, but when I think about how little this car costs brand spanking new, all of those are small sacrifices to pay for what you get. The chassis, the suspension, the practicality, the fuel economy. You get a LOT for that money. This is the absolute best car in that price range. It is so good that I think it's beaten the Miata as my previous budget driver's car of choice.

Enjoy it!!!

And this is what people will always talk about. How you could spend X dollars more and get a whatever, completely glossing over the fact that it costs X dollars more.

The interior materials are ok, but nothing that some Katzkin leather couldn't fix, the engine can use some mods to beef it up, and the steering could probably use a bit more feel (but I think it's fine IMO). But, the money was spend wisely and its a great base for modification or future improvements. The same people who say that it needs a turbo will complain that the turbo version costs $5k more, some people are never happy.

[bucket]

Originally Posted by Rosso_Corsa

You've got exactly the right attitude.

In the world of cars, you will always get what you pay for. You will get more by spending more on a Cayman. You will get more by spending more on an Elise.

If this were not true -- as some people here seem to believe -- then nobody would spend more than 30k on a car.

However, the law of diminishing returns makes such an incredible case for the FRS. You really are maximizing every penny of your purchase price to prioritize chassis, handling and driving fun. I think you're gonna love your car and won't feel at all like you missed out by not spending the extra for the Lotus or the Porsche.

In my opinion, the interior materials are rubbish and the engine sounds so-so and the steering feel could be better, but when I think about how little this car costs brand spanking new, all of those are small sacrifices to pay for what you get. The chassis, the suspension, the practicality, the fuel economy. You get a LOT for that money. This is the absolute best car in that price range. It is so good that I think it's beaten the Miata as my previous budget driver's car of choice.

Enjoy it!!!

The primary thing that is steering me towards the BRZ, is how much can you really use the Cayman on the road? After driving a C6 around for a couple weeks, I ended up with the impression that I loved the car, but it makes absolutely no sense to spend the money on one unless you went to a racetrack often. Even driving that car at 5/10ths would get you into some seriously inadvisable situations/speeds. If the car never leaves the street, then you are leaving money on the table and not getting everything out of it, or doing some ridiculous shit. I could see a Cayman as being the devil on the shoulder that always tells you to do bad things.

[DeeezNuuuts83]

Originally Posted by bucket

The primary thing that is steering me towards the BRZ, is how much can you really use the Cayman on the road? After driving a C6 around for a couple weeks, I ended up with the impression that I loved the car, but it makes absolutely no sense to spend the money on one unless you went to a racetrack often. Even driving that car at 5/10ths would get you into some seriously inadvisable situations/speeds. If the car never leaves the street, then you are leaving money on the table and not getting everything out of it, or doing some ridiculous shit. I could see a Cayman as being the devil on the shoulder that always tells you to do bad things.

You bring up a good perspective, but just because you can't use a car at 10/10ths (or close to it) on public roads doesn't mean that it's a waste of money. But in the case of the C6, its engine is just so flexible with so much bottom-end grunt that it really doesn't take much to do something dangerous and/or illegal while also taking the right kind of area to really exploit 400+ hp and 400+ lb-ft, so it's somewhat of a unique situation compared to other sports cars in its price range. But luckily its cruising gears are super tall, so it gets decent highway mpg and can be daily-driven within reason. But even the current Mustang GT is just about at that level now too (with 400+ hp and a bit under 400 lb-ft).

In the case of the Cayman (and also the 911s, which are more powerful but also daily-driven by MANY people), it's not too powerful to the point where it will rarely be exploited. Similarly, its power delivery is controllable enough to the point where sneezing while your foot is on the throttle won't necessarily upset the rear end, which may contrast to the far torquier C6. Also, it's a fairly comfortable car with a nice interior, which certainly appeals to drivers who have the money for it (meaning they could buy it today if they wanted to, and not necessarily the people who would need to save up for a while and possibly be approved for a loan).

But again, I definitely see your point. I have a bone-stock Evo IX SE, and frankly, even the stock output is plenty for me, and it's not as if I exploit the 286 hp and 289 lb-ft everyday or pushed it to its absolute limits and felt the need for the next step. As a result, I have no real reason to spend money on it to mod it beyond that. Similarly, a year ago I was considering an M3, and while it's definitely a much nicer car and a big step up, I knew that the 414 horses would rarely be unleashed if I had one. But the ~320 hp in a Cayman S sounds like fun while not being too crazy to let loose.

[slizoth]

Originally Posted by Rosso_Corsa

FT86CLUB Homepage Featured Story

The kids who are just starting out or just buying their first new car, you are living in good times. But maybe leave the drifting to Ken Block.

Yessir, this is indeed my first car (BRZ) and I went three years carless to afford to step into this. Very pleased with the results!

[OrbitalEllipses]

I wouldn't think the BRZ/FR-S would ever make anyone want to trade down from the benchmark. Until the day I can afford a Cayman S, this will have to do.

Thanks for your thoughts and feedback.

[DeeezNuuuts83]

Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses

I wouldn't think the BRZ/FR-S would ever make anyone want to trade down from the benchmark. Until the day I can afford a Cayman S, this will have to do.

Basically. It's not a bad consulation prize, especially if you don't have the funds to afford a Porsche. Before, the 370Z was clearly inferior to the Porsche (whether we're talking about a Cayman or the base 911) but still considered the next-best thing as far as RWD sports cars go when it was released. But even with over 100 hp less than the 370Z, the FR-S/BRZ makes a much stronger argument for taking that title from it.

It's interesting how similar the FR-S/BRZ and the Cayman are, considering how they're both very agile cars that both have a chassis capable of far more power, though of course in the case of the Cayman, Porsche doesn't want it to steal too many 911 customers.

[YW-Slayer]

Originally Posted by Rosso_Corsa

You've got exactly the right attitude.

In the world of cars, you will always get what you pay for. You will get more by spending more on a Cayman. You will get more by spending more on an Elise.

If this were not true -- as some people here seem to believe -- then nobody would spend more than 30k on a car.

However, the law of diminishing returns makes such an incredible case for the FRS. You really are maximizing every penny of your purchase price to prioritize chassis, handling and driving fun. I think you're gonna love your car and won't feel at all like you missed out by not spending the extra for the Lotus or the Porsche.

In my opinion, the interior materials are rubbish and the engine sounds so-so and the steering feel could be better, but when I think about how little this car costs brand spanking new, all of those are small sacrifices to pay for what you get. The chassis, the suspension, the practicality, the fuel economy. You get a LOT for that money. This is the absolute best car in that price range. It is so good that I think it's beaten the Miata as my previous budget driver's car of choice.

Enjoy it!!!

Thanks mate, I will definitely try and do so!

I finally sat in a base 86 at the Toyota dealership today. I thought the interior was fine for my purposes. I do think the interior of my 2005 Legacy does look slightly better, although I'm sure a Cayman's interior would be better-looking (don't think I've ever sat in one) and the Elise definitely more special, though also obviously more spartan.

I'm very interested in value and utility, even for a second car. In fact, as I live in a city where cars are prohibitively expensive luxury items, I'll take a lower-cost, fun-to-drive, but slower car with more utility any day, as long as it's not too similar to the Legacy. Another factor is that parts and labour should be much cheaper for the BRZ, it being a Japanese car and me being closer to Japan and all that.

The somewhat usable rear seats (I'm about 5' 10" and found it would probably be just about bearable for a short ride) are really a major bonus, as are the ISOFIX clips in the back point for when I want to bring the young 'un along, or even take her to school! Not too fussed about lack of a convertible option at the moment, since what that means here 98% of the time is that you have the option of breathing in pollution. That is, unless you live quite far away from the ***, which I don't.

I don't entirely agree with getting what you pay for, but there are definitely trade-offs and I'm willing to make a few to get the BRZ, just as others are willing to trade-off some of the above to have an Elise/Cayman/MX-5.

In somewhat related news, I also ended up looking at the RX and GS today as well, since the Lexus showroom is next to the Toyota showroom. Perhaps I am getting old and soft...

[EsoBOFH]

Originally Posted by Rosso_Corsa

- The interior looks good in pictures, but the materials are quite nasty in person. Seat material, dash material, everything feels very cheap. However, this car IS very cheap.

Overall I agree with his assessment, except the bit about the Dash.. the seat material, yes.. the doors, arm rests, interior plastics, yes. But the dash? the Dash has a supple soft touch material throughout that is matt black, reduces glare, and feels fantastic, and looks fantastic. - I disagree so much that i'm thinking, maybe the factory threw the BRZ dash in my FR-s to get it out the door?? I think it's awesome, and was quite surprised by it. I think it would be at home in the cayman even...