How to align a car?

[Racecomp Engineering]

Anyway, for alignments.

We do not offer alignments as a service to customers...we have a nearby shop that we work with that is extremely good.

I do my own alignments in the shop with SmartStrings, a camber gauge, and a leveled floor. We have a lift and it's still a pain. It takes a lot of patience and attention to detail. The front goes pretty quick, but the rear is annoying. It's definitely not for everyone.

A good nearby alignment shop is very good to have. If you don't need a lot of alignments, I would highly recommend taking it to a trusted and competent shop. If you do frequent adjustments, or change suspensions frequently, it is worth considering investing the time and money into acquiring the skills and equipment to do it correctly yourself.

- Andrew

[Stomachbuzz]

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

Noooo. Spring preload is not the same as spring rate.

Linear springs are linear, meaning the spring rate does not change as you compress the spring. Compressing the first inch of a 400 lbs/in spring takes 400 lbs. Compressing it the next inch takes another 400 lbs/in. The spring rate does not change. *assuming the linear spring actually is linear.

Sorry I see this all the time and it was just on some major YouTube series and I wanted to scream. If you want to change the spring rate, you need to change the spring.

- Andrew

Right. I'm sorry. That was silly of me, and I'll take the benefit of a 'late night, groggy post'

This is true, it would just adjust the ride height.

Progressive springs do exist though. Not sure how common they are, but I have seen them on stock vehicles like my Toyota Tacoma.

[Racecomp Engineering]

Originally Posted by Stomachbuzz

Right. I'm sorry. That was silly of me, and I'll take the benefit of a 'late night, groggy post'

This is true, it would just adjust the ride height.

Progressive springs do exist though. Not sure how common they are, but I have seen them on stock vehicles like my Toyota Tacoma.

Right on. Some aftermarket coilovers use progressive springs too.

- Andrew

[venturaII]

I paid 200 bucks for a lifetime alignment ($100 for a one time job) at a local independent shop. I could bring it to them every day if I wanted, but I have them check it every spring and sometimes make a tweak or two if I'm changing something. The kid that works the alignment rack is actually interested in cars, and not some dropout dud, and he takes pride in hitting the numbers I give him. Same goes for tire balancing - 100 bucks for a lifetime balance for that set of tires.

[NoHaveMSG]

I have a local place that will set to my specs for around $100.

That being said I still make minor tweaks during the year and have toe plates and a camber gauge, it is a pain in the ass. Takes a long time, especially in the rear where making camber changes effects toe quite a bit.

[Icecreamtruk]

Go to a performance shop that does race alignment. Yes it will be more but it will be worth it. Yes you can "technically do it yourself", but the problem is that when you change camber, toe changes, when you change toe, camber changes, when you change ride height, both camber and toe change. You cannot change one thing individually and expect the rest to stay the same, hence the people telling you its a lot of time, because it is.

On a more picky note, get a tire pyro (needle type) and check your temperature and pressure by hot pitting, learn what these values mean and how to tell what changes your alignment needs afterwards. Every car has a different sweet spot for the setup and driving style. A good alignment vs a (very) bad alignment is more time on track than a stock car vs a header + tune and E85 car, quite literally seconds being left on the table (and tires destroyed in the process).

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

Compressing the first inch of a 400 lbs/in spring takes 400 lbs.

What magic springs do you have access to and can we buy them?

Eibach only guarantees linearity through 50% of their spring travel skipping the first 20% and the last 30% of stroke, on their 60mm 400# 200mm L spring (similar to what I believe you put on RCE T2s) with ~5" of travel they ignore literally the first inch of compression. Of course I know that spec is conservative and they're better than that but we don't live on a frictionless perfectly flat plane either.

[Racecomp Engineering]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

What magic springs do you have access to and can we buy them?

Eibach only guarantees linearity through 50% of their spring travel skipping the first 20% and the last 30% of stroke, on their 60mm 400# 200mm L spring (similar to what I believe you put on RCE T2s) with ~5" of travel they ignore literally the first inch of compression. Of course I know that spec is conservative and they're better than that but we don't live on a frictionless perfectly flat plane either.

I did put an * there for a reason!

Hyperco (one of the best in terms of linearity) advertises this on their site:
2% rate linearity tolerance from 20% to 60% of deflection
4% rate linearity tolerance from 61% to 80% of deflection

Eibach, Swift, and KW RACE are pretty close to that. On the "good" coilover spring brands, I would consider the linear springs to be linear enough, but yes they are not perfect on the front or back end.

- Andrew

[Stomachbuzz]

So a quick and dirty way to have a track-only alignment for a primarily DD'd car might be to install camber plates, mark original position, move them in a few degrees, then move them back to original position afterwards?

"track" referring to like casual autocross or something.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Stomachbuzz

So a quick and dirty way to have a track-only alignment for a primarily DD'd car might be to install camber plates, mark original position, move them in a few degrees, then move them back to original position afterwards?

"track" referring to like casual autocross or something.

I did that for awhile, and you certainly can do that, now I just DD -4° and 0 toe up front.
Rear is pretty sane at around -2.5° and 1/16" iirc so no need to adjust between events imho.

Yes I have accelerated inner edge wear, I use cheap street tires to compensate. -3° or thereabouts is a good starting performance camber up front imho that won't eat tires awfully if you get lots of hard driving on them.

[ZDan]

I run my "track" alignment all track season on my DD BRZ:
-3 front camber, 0 front toe, -2.5 rear camber, 0 rear toe

It's not a big deal to run a fair amount of camber on the street btw...

IMO it is NOT critical to have perfectly symmetric camber, or to have it a couple/few tenths off what you think is "ideal". For me, street/track, front camber anywhere from 2.8 to 3.3 is fine, and if it's off by a couple or even a few tenths left to right, I don't worry about it...
I did not bother getting adjustable rear control arms, wound up at -2.4/-2.6 rear camber (1.25" lower than stock) with the stock arms, fine with me...

Tenths of a degree matter more for toe.

My approach is to give the shop a decently wide target on camber, and a tighter range on toe-in. I don't think it's worth the effort (for most of us anyway) to insist on getting *everything* within 0.05 of a degree.

Camber and caster plus or minus a couple of tenths, symmetric within a couple/few tenths, then toe within a tenth of a degree is fine.

[86MLR]

Remember that the grippier the tyre the more camber you can run.

I'm currently running -2° front and -1.5° rear with Potenza RE003 (Indy firehawks), with my RS4's I had -2.5 front and -2° rear.

Zero toe front and rear. (Becausestreetcar)

The RS4's were much much grippier, BUT, the grippier RS4 were 215/45 17, the less grippy RE003 are 235/45 17, both on a 8" rim. (Note to self: never get RE003's again, replace them with RS4's).

Coils are MCA street performance, dampening dialed around medium-ish. (20mm drop front and rear).

MCA traction mod.

Superpro rear adjustable LCA and adjustable toe arms. (Didn't need the toe arms but they came with the LCA's)

Whiteline poly diff mount inserts.

Hardrace poly subframe inserts.

Stock bars

Tyres are running 32psi.

Car is daily driver, with weekend jaunts through the hills and mountains.

Balance is good, tyre wear is typical front and rear across the treads to the shoulders.

TL;DR Hankook RS4's are my favorite bang for your buck street tyres.

[kev0]

Originally Posted by 86MLR

Remember that the grippier the tyre the more camber you can run.

I'm currently running -2° front and -1.5° rear with Potenza RE003 (Indy firehawks), with my RS4's I had -2.5 front and -2° rear.

Zero toe front and rear. (Becausestreetcar)

The RS4's were much much grippier, BUT, the grippier RS4 were 215/45 17, the less grippy RE003 are 235/45 17, both on a 8" rim. (Note to self: never get RE003's again, replace them with RS4's).

Coils are MCA street performance, dampening dialed around medium-ish. (20mm drop front and rear).

MCA traction mod.

Superpro rear adjustable LCA and adjustable toe arms. (Didn't need the toe arms but they came with the LCA's)

Whiteline poly diff mount inserts.

Hardrace poly subframe inserts.

Stock bars

Tyres are running 32psi.

Car is daily driver, with weekend jaunts through the hills and mountains.

Balance is good, tyre wear is typical front and rear across the treads to the shoulders.

TL;DR Hankook RS4's are my favorite bang for your buck street tyres.

Do you know how the RS4's compare to the Ventus v12 Evo 2's?

[churchx]

Not sure, grip level of tire is the only parameter, camber depends on. Imho also from stiffness of sidewalls, and optimum pressures for best grip of specific tire also may affect which camber is best for which tire. And then it may also depend on aero bits installed on car/downforce, no?