Ace 4-2-1 Header

[Jonsey]

Cannot wait for mine to arrive so I can finish dialing in my aero package.

[johan]

Originally Posted by AceHeader-MT

Talk to your local tuner and they'll tell you why this is good for everything. If they can't, you need a new tuner

Better yet just contact @DeliciousTuning for their Ace v6.8+ tune and feel for yourself.

Besides the ridiculously cooler intake temps, we no longer need an oil cooler as oil and water doesn't get above 110*C. This is not recommended, but that was a main design requirement.

For a $200 part, we're not going to spend thousands for dyno time.

I love you guys and what you do - your products are phenomenal and the way you interact with this community is great .... but I take serious issue with this statement. You can't say something like this, regarding this platform, without more clarity and data to back it up. Oil coolers are so crucial to the health of this motor, and saying that an air duct removes the need for one on the track just sounds like nonsense.

Please either clarify or retract this statement.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by AceHeader-MT

For a $200 part, we're not going to spend thousands for dyno time.

Might be worth just fitting a pressure transducer upstream of the filter. Wonder which is doing more, the box or the splitter.

[nunonuna]

Originally Posted by AceHeader-MT

Talk to your local tuner and they'll tell you why this is good for everything. If they can't, you need a new tuner

Better yet just contact @DeliciousTuning for their Ace v6.8+ tune and feel for yourself.

Besides the ridiculously cooler intake temps, we no longer need an oil cooler as oil and water doesn't get above 110*C. This is not recommended, but that was a main design requirement.

For a $200 part, we're not going to spend thousands for dyno time.

Well, at least you can provide the before & after data logs of oil, water & intake air temp with ambient temp to show the difference. I don't think doing so will cost you thousands of dollars. Also, shouldn't you have some data when you are developing & R&D is done??? Im not doubting your part will work. Sure it seems great product, but providing such a data will help both you and buyers. As a customer, Im mot expecting ACE to provide dyno result on this kit, but would love to see the data of temperature difference.

[tony-brz]

Originally Posted by AceHeader-MT

Talk to your local tuner and they'll tell you why this is good for everything. If they can't, you need a new tuner

Better yet just contact @DeliciousTuning for their Ace v6.8+ tune and feel for yourself.

Besides the ridiculously cooler intake temps, we no longer need an oil cooler as oil and water doesn't get above 110*C. This is not recommended, but that was a main design requirement.

For a $200 part, we're not going to spend thousands for dyno time.

I agree with the skepticism you're receiving from other posters. Please show us some data.

Does this $200 part mean I can regularly track my NA brz without a significantly more costly oil cooler ? I know you said "not recommended" but maybe this is just enough for NA applications?

[Decay107]

Originally Posted by AceHeader-MT

Talk to your local tuner and they'll tell you why this is good for everything. If they can't, you need a new tuner

Better yet just contact @DeliciousTuning for their Ace v6.8+ tune and feel for yourself.

Besides the ridiculously cooler intake temps, we no longer need an oil cooler as oil and water doesn't get above 110*C. This is not recommended, but that was a main design requirement.

For a $200 part, we're not going to spend thousands for dyno time.

So you're telling me you can suck more than 26,000 BTU/hr (The approximate amount of power I need to dissipate via a separate air-oil cooler to maintain 110*c on track) out of the oil via coolant? ...Even though, from the factory, the cooling system and oil are not linked anywhere except inside the block (and marginally so at best)? What about all the people who can maintain under 110*C ECT already but see 135*C+ oil temps on track? Why would your 110*C coolant do any better at cooling the oil than anybody else's 110*C coolant?

In for data.

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by AceHeader-MT

Talk to your local tuner and they'll tell you why this is good for everything. If they can't, you need a new tuner

Better yet just contact @DeliciousTuning for their Ace v6.8+ tune and feel for yourself.

Besides the ridiculously cooler intake temps, we no longer need an oil cooler as oil and water doesn't get above 110*C. This is not recommended, but that was a main design requirement.

For a $200 part, we're not going to spend thousands for dyno time.

I think people need to chill. Obviously YMMV depending on speed, ambient air temps and a handful of other variables. So even if this doesn't quite achieve the above (which it very well might), it's still an interesting part that's been needed for this car for quite some time. Other Intake ram options are out there, but this one looks to feed both the radiator and intake with that awesome oversized scoop. I'm open to see what develops.

[johan]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

I think people need to chill. Obviously YMMV depending on speed, ambient air temps and a handful of other variables. So even if this doesn't quite achieve the above (which it very well might), it's still an interesting part that's been needed for this car for quite some time. Other Intake ram options are out there, but this one looks to feed both the radiator and intake with that awesome oversized scoop. I'm open to see what develops.

No one is arguing against the benefits for the radiator or air intake, in fact I like this piece a lot. If I wouldn't have to cut the shit out of it to get my supercharger cooler / oil cooler hoses through it, I'd actually consider running it!

What I do take issue with is the claim that it negates the need for an oil cooler on the track. There is irrefutable empirical evidence all over this website to the contrary. Asserting anything else is dangerous, as it confuses others who are less informed on the topic.

If ACE can provide data and reasoning to back up the claim, then we can continue this conversation - but we needed to draw a line in the sand and ask for that clarification. ACE is well respected here, and as I said in my original message, I very much appreciate how they communicate on here and how professional they are. That statement set off a lot of alarm bells for me, and I've already had one person come to me and ask "does this mean that if I get this, I don't need an oil cooler anymore?"

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by johan

No one is arguing against the benefits for the radiator or air intake, in fact I like this piece a lot. If I wouldn't have to cut the shit out of it to get my supercharger cooler / oil cooler hoses through it, I'd actually consider running it!

What I do take issue with is the claim that it negates the need for an oil cooler on the track. There is irrefutable empirical evidence all over this website to the contrary. Asserting anything else is dangerous, as it confuses others who are less informed on the topic.

If ACE can provide data and reasoning to back up the claim, then we can continue this conversation - but we needed to draw a line in the sand and ask for that clarification. ACE is well respected here, and as I said in my original message, I very much appreciate how they communicate on here and how professional they are. That statement set off a lot of alarm bells for me, and I've already had one person come to me and ask "does this mean that if I get this, I don't need an oil cooler anymore?"

I agree with everything you just said.

No doubt there were some decisions driven by data that Ace used to design their part. I think it would be a good idea for them to share whatever they can when announcing a new product.

It's the way the car forum guys go about demanding data that is relevant to them that can be bro-ish, overly aggressive and ultimately counterproductive. That's something I'd like to see change for the sake of overall decorum but mostly how people treat others online. So why not speak out on it in places like this board where we have record of whom is/are established & reputable.

[johan]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

It's the way the car forum guys go about demanding data that is relevant to them that can be bro-ish, overly aggressive and ultimately counterproductive. That's something I'd like to see change for the sake of overall decorum but mostly how people treat others online. So why not speak out on it in places like this board where we have record of whom is/are established & reputable.

I did start my comment by acknowledging that ACE are awesome, did I not? Did I not also reiterate that I like the part in question? I did also earlier in this thread commend them for the design of the CS-400.

I'm not being an e-thug, I am being assertive though. I think that is warranted - this is a serious topic - with serious risks for people that track their cars (myself and many of my friends included, yes, I do indeed track my autotragic supercharged BRZ). I understand your point about the "mob mentality" of online people, and while I do agree with your points in general, at the same time I really shouldn't need to be explaining myself right now regarding why I take this particular topic so seriously.

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by johan

I did start my comment by acknowledging that ACE are awesome, did I not? Did I not also reiterate that I like the part in question? I did also earlier in this thread commend them for the design of the CS-400.

I'm not being an e-thug, I am being assertive though. I think that is warranted - this is a serious topic - with serious risks for people that track their cars (myself and many of my friends included, yes, I do indeed track my autotragic supercharged BRZ). I understand your point about the "mob mentality" of online people, and while I do agree with your points in general, at the same time I really shouldn't need to be explaining myself right now regarding why I take this particular topic so seriously.

Wasn't/didn't point to you. Really it was the group afterwards that started to get a little chippy. No doubt it's serious. That's the best reason to try and have productive discourse (which this thread has already started to turn back towards.) My guess is when Ace makes an official product announcement (not just a teaser) they'll add some insight into what information drove their design decisions. If not, then Ace can you do this please? Thanks!

[VitViper]

I agree, there really is no need for an oil cooler with a proper setup. I found that once I recalibrated the improper OEM oil temp sensor calibration, I've never seen high oil temps.

[johan]

Originally Posted by VitViper

I agree, there really is no need for an oil cooler with a proper setup. I found that once I recalibrated the improper OEM oil temp sensor calibration, I've never seen high oil temps.

/shun

[Ultramaroon]