GTC-200 wing, smaller wing or no wing at all?

[DocWalt]

Originally Posted by GrandSport

Front
-.10* toe (total)
-3.72* Camber
5.71* Caster

Rear
.12 total toe
-3.02 Camber

Stance coilovers (I know... they came with the car, they're honestly not that bad and my track is very smooth so its not a big deal)
gutted/caged/etc
small splitter
V730 tires
and obviously, the wing

So multiple things...

Nowhere near enough front camber for 200TW tires if you want to optimize the setup. I've got -5 degrees up front. Rear is... fine?


What spring rates? What swaybars?


Also, the misconception that "my crappy shocks are fine because my track is smooth" is totally ignoring what shocks do. Their primary job is to control what happens to the tires when there are driver inputs and track smoothness is mostly irrelevant for that.


That said, Stance coilovers are "fine" valving wise.

[GrandSport]

Originally Posted by DocWalt

So multiple things...

Nowhere near enough front camber for 200TW tires if you want to optimize the setup. I've got -5 degrees up front. Rear is... fine?


What spring rates? What swaybars?


Also, the misconception that "my crappy shocks are fine because my track is smooth" is totally ignoring what shocks do. Their primary job is to control what happens to the tires when there are driver inputs and track smoothness is mostly irrelevant for that.


That said, Stance coilovers are "fine" valving wise.

I agree, but it's a lot worse on bumpy tracks.

I dont really know the spring rates - I would very much assume they are whatever the off the shelf XR1 Stance coil overs are for the BRZ.
Whiteline sway bars (adjustable, dont recall where they're set) and a front strut tower brace.

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Is that rear on both the front and rear or just the front?

That is wear on the front. Similar on both front tires. Rear is wearing nicely.

[GrandSport]

Originally Posted by terboboost

Stance coilovers are fantastic, is there a sentiment that they are not?

I wouldn't say fantastic. I think the sentiment is they're a good cheap shock.

I'm sort of going all in on spec miata because of the number of them here locally and that an 86 isn't very competitive in WRL due to fuel tank/mileage otherwise I'd get coil overs that match the rest of the car. It's got a great cage, very good brakes, solid motor, upgraded trans, great cooling, great seats, etc. Shocks (and data logger) are the only place it sort of cheaped out.

They are what came with the car when I bought it 5 years ago. If it was me, I would have gone with nicer coil overs. But otherwise, the car was awesome and the right price, and (knock on wood) it's been very good to me.

I doubt I'd be any faster on $5k KWs, but I love a good set of coilovers. It was the first thing I did to the Viper and C7 (well, just the DSC controller as the springs were fine). The Viper came with Eibach lowering springs so I basically had to "fix" it. With the big aero on it, it needed more than OEM spring rates so stock wasn't an option, nor was just slapping super stiff springs on stock shocks.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by GrandSport

That is wear on the front. Similar on both front tires. Rear is wearing nicely.

Do you have any pyrometer data on the tires?

Try reducing angle on your wing for the time being and/or raising the car as a whole (and re corner balance).

remember, a higher leading edge on the wing doesn't mean it's positive AoA against the air flowing on the wing.

[redlined600]

Is there anything stopping you from removing the wing and splitter to test the balance without aero?

[GrandSport]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Do you have any pyrometer data on the tires?

Try reducing angle on your wing for the time being and/or raising the car as a whole (and re corner balance).

remember, a higher leading edge on the wing doesn't mean it's positive AoA against the air flowing on the wing.

No data, but I'd strongly assume the outsides are very hot, lol

It's set to minimum A0A.

Originally Posted by redlined600

Is there anything stopping you from removing the wing and splitter to test the balance without aero?

The rear would be loose as ever living hell. Feels like the rear is driving in rain without the wing and the splitter there, let alone removing that too. I doubt the splitter does anything measurable. It's like 4" long and 6" off the ground. I know Kelsey and Silvio did some testing with and without it. Maybe @Kelse92 can chime in.

[redlined600]

What splitter do you have? Have you checked the angle of it, if it's mounted to the bumper there is a chance it's pointed in the wrong direction.

[GrandSport]

Originally Posted by redlined600

What splitter do you have? Have you checked the angle of it, if it's mounted to the bumper there is a chance it's pointed in the wrong direction.

APR. It's pretty flat. A 4" splitter just isn't going to do much at relatively low speeds. And it's certainly going to less than the wing at AoA as speeds increase.

[GrandSport]

Originally Posted by redlined600

What splitter do you have? Have you checked the angle of it, if it's mounted to the bumper there is a chance it's pointed in the wrong direction.

APR. It's pretty flat. A 4" splitter just isn't going to do much at relatively low speeds. And it's certainly going to less than the wing at AoA as speeds increase.

[Kelse92]

Originally Posted by GrandSport

The rear would be loose as ever living hell. Feels like the rear is driving in rain without the wing and the splitter there, let alone removing that too. I doubt the splitter does anything measurable. It's like 4" long and 6" off the ground. I know Kelsey and Silvio did some testing with and without it. Maybe @Kelse92 can chime in.

Thanks for the mention.
My data may not be super beneficial. I’ve compared the car with the same tire and suspension setup/mods with and without a wing, but did realign the car each time to compensate. The with-wing setup was faster.

I also tested for considering potentially adding a splitter, but never ended up mounting it.
My test was mainly on 200tw tires in the ruleset vs Hoosiers as the wider 200’s at the time would have afforded adding a splitter vs my setup on a Hoosier. But the lap time slow-down from the 200’s for me just in back-to-back testing (1.5-2 second delta) didn’t seem like adding a splitter would overcome that lap-time difference so we never finished mounting it.

There are people who have had good success with splitter and wing combo on non-Hoosiers, I just didn’t think it was worth the points on my particular car for TT5 and the tracks we drive

[GrandSport]

Originally Posted by Kelse92

Thanks for the mention.
My data may not be super beneficial. I’ve compared the car with the same tire and suspension setup/mods with and without a wing, but did realign the car each time to compensate. The with-wing setup was faster.

I also tested for considering potentially adding a splitter, but never ended up mounting it.
My test was mainly on 200tw tires in the ruleset vs Hoosiers as the wider 200’s at the time would have afforded adding a splitter vs my setup on a Hoosier. But the lap time slow-down from the 200’s for me just in back-to-back testing (1.5-2 second delta) didn’t seem like adding a splitter would overcome that lap-time difference so we never finished mounting it.

There are people who have had good success with splitter and wing combo on non-Hoosiers, I just didn’t think it was worth the points on my particular car for TT5 and the tracks we drive

Thanks!

I may take it off and see if there is any noticeable difference one day.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by GrandSport

No data, but I'd strongly assume the outsides are very hot, lol

It's set to minimum A0A.



The rear would be loose as ever living hell. Feels like the rear is driving in rain without the wing and the splitter there, let alone removing that too. I doubt the splitter does anything measurable. It's like 4" long and 6" off the ground. I know Kelsey and Silvio did some testing with and without it. Maybe @Kelse92 can chime in.

I bet you can go "more" minimum.

You literally want the leading edge to be slightly higher. Give it a shot, maybe 2 degrees negative.

[jflogerzi]

don't the v730s wear in a weird way due to the tread pattern. I only have -4 camber up front and -2.6 rear and have not had any issues with my v730s over several events

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk

[jflogerzi]

Originally Posted by GrandSport

No data, but I'd strongly assume the outsides are very hot, lol

It's set to minimum A0A.



The rear would be loose as ever living hell. Feels like the rear is driving in rain without the wing and the splitter there, let alone removing that too. I doubt the splitter does anything measurable. It's like 4" long and 6" off the ground. I know Kelsey and Silvio did some testing with and without it. Maybe @Kelse92 can chime in.

honestly that's your problem. My setup is very similar to you. Very similar camber/caster specs, same tires and I feel my car is very planted even without aero. My guess the suspension is over sprung (to high of spring rates) Just because the track is smooth don't mean shit... I made the mistake of getting some custom coils and went for high spring rates made for 200TW or slicks, full aero etc... Without it the car was miserable to drive sadly. Rear felt exactly as your describing