This is not a winter car! Fed up! May end up selling...

[tiz22]

I gotta be honest for a low clearance, RWD sports car this is a pretty beastly car in the snow...My mazda3 was completely useless in the winter I would slide out and end up in a snow bank with 1+ inch of snow

I have been passing trucks in the majority of snowy/slushy driving as the TC keeps the car in line even when the back end gets a little happy...I have been more than impressed with the capabilities of this car in snow.

Now you throw 7-10 inches of snow at it and OBVIOUSLY you're going to have difficulties...The only time I've been stuck in this ridiculous Canadian winter is when there is more snow than clearance...Makes sense right? Doesn't matter if you have the worlds best snow tires, AWD/4x4/whatever...If you have more snow than clearance, your car is going to get stuck.

With that said, a helper to push the back and a bit of kitty litter with some shoveling and I was free. Saw my neighbour with a low pickup truck in the exact same situation. It's the downside of driving a car that can corner at ridiculously high speeds

If they made this thing to drive in the deepest of snow storms, everyone would be complaining that it's a total sh*t car for handling and on the track...and that wouldn't be very wise, would it?

[Kimsey47]

A RWD sports car isn't a good winter car?!

[Hanni_0176]

Originally Posted by tiz22

I gotta be honest for a low clearance, RWD sports car this is a pretty beastly car in the snow...My mazda3 was completely useless in the winter I would slide out and end up in a snow bank with 1+ inch of snow

I have been passing trucks in the majority of snowy/slushy driving as the TC keeps the car in line even when the back end gets a little happy...I have been more than impressed with the capabilities of this car in snow.

Now you throw 7-10 inches of snow at it and OBVIOUSLY you're going to have difficulties...The only time I've been stuck in this ridiculous Canadian winter is when there is more snow than clearance...Makes sense right? Doesn't matter if you have the worlds best snow tires, AWD/4x4/whatever...If you have more snow than clearance, your car is going to get stuck.

With that said, a helper to push the back and a bit of kitty litter with some shoveling and I was free. Saw my neighbour with a low pickup truck in the exact same situation. It's the downside of driving a car that can corner at ridiculously high speeds

If they made this thing to drive in the deepest of snow storms, everyone would be complaining that it's a total sh*t car for handling and on the track...and that wouldn't be very wise, would it?

I think you're talking about VSC, not TC. VSC kicks in when the car starts to slide. TC kicks in when you are experiencing wheel spin.

[drei]

Originally Posted by 7thgear

turn nannies off


learn to trust the car


it's not gonna be a tank like the others, but you should have known that.

this.


second winter with the car, i have never driven it through snow without turning everything off.

I haven't been stuck once (i use the car as a daily driver), althought that may be sheer luck. But I also wouldn't drive into an unplowed street....

[tiz22]

Originally Posted by Hanni_0176

I think you're talking about VSC, not TC. VSC kicks in when the car starts to slide. TC kicks in when you are experiencing wheel spin.

I slide as a result of wheel spin...So isn't it a little of both?

[Hanni_0176]

Originally Posted by tiz22

I slide as a result of wheel spin...So isn't it a little of both?

Sure. Wheel spin starts, TC kicks in and reduces the wheel spin by limiting power to that wheel(s) by applying the brakes.

When you start to slide, VSC kicks in and limits power to the wheel(s) by applying the brakes in a variable way to control the slide and get it to straighten back out.

TC might help reduce the amount you slide initially, but VSC is correcting your slide and bringing you back in line.

In deep snow and at low speeds, you need wheel spin to move the car. Limiting power to the wheels will get you stuck at low speeds. This is why you want to turn TC off. Once you are above 31 mph, TC will turn itself back on... but by 31 mph, you're no longer going to get "stuck," and it should help reduce the chance of the car sliding out... but again, it's VSC that fixes the situation when you do start sliding.

I hope this explanation helps somewhat.

[wparsons]

Originally Posted by 7thgear

someone donate me money so i can haz GoPro and make educational snow videoz

If you're serious, you can borrow my gopro...

[7thgear]

nah, i couldn't (mainly cuz i wouldn't give it back)

i should just man up and buy one, been planning on doing so since the dang thing came out

the Hero3+ "black" is an impressive piece of technology.

[hmong337]

You guys are funny... You'll remember my words when you meet you match with winter one day.

Look, I was fully expecting this car to be a tough winter car to live with like my old e30 325is and my 89 240sx coupe. Both sports cars (or sporty rwd cars). But even those cars made it through the deepest of snow and never left me burried once! The 240sx being lowered too.

This is the first newer type car I've owned with any sort of "driving aids". What I've learned so far is that those aids can be quite a hindrance when it comes to real situations like deep snow.

[daiheadjai]

No problems so far, but I have 205/55R16 Continental Extreme Wintercontacts and two 20kg bags of sand in my trunk.
It also does help that I haven't actually encountered truly deep snow yet...

Hmong, did your SW20 fare any better?

[tiz22]

Originally Posted by Hanni_0176

Sure. Wheel spin starts, TC kicks in and reduces the wheel spin by limiting power to that wheel(s) by applying the brakes.

When you start to slide, VSC kicks in and limits power to the wheel(s) by applying the brakes in a variable way to control the slide and get it to straighten back out.

TC might help reduce the amount you slide initially, but VSC is correcting your slide and bringing you back in line.

In deep snow and at low speeds, you need wheel spin to move the car. Limiting power to the wheels will get you stuck at low speeds. This is why you want to turn TC off. Once you are above 31 mph, TC will turn itself back on... but by 31 mph, you're no longer going to get "stuck," and it should help reduce the chance of the car sliding out... but again, it's VSC that fixes the situation when you do start sliding.

I hope this explanation helps somewhat.

For sure - that's what I thought. Thanks for clearing it up though

[djdnz]

I think you need to lower your expectations a bit. On really snowy days like today where the residential roads are not plowed and there is 7+" of fresh snow on the road, the FRS/BRZ is not going to make it. Most small cars have trouble with this weather, let alone ones with 5" of ground clearance and light weight.

[7thgear]

this is how i think of it (and this is not meant to be an insult to anyone)

a long time ago, when i was 19ish, i was given a chance to drive a Lotus Elise around Shannonville and TMP.

The owner of this car was rather wealthy.. and nice.. and gave me the keys along with the words "go out and don't worry about anything."

At the time, this was my 2nd year of any sort of motorsports activity and my only car at the time was the fun but dreadful VW Golf 2.0.. or 2.slow as they call it. It took me 12 careful laps around Shannonville in the Elise to beat my VW time.

A month later, i was given another opportunity to drive the Elise at TMP. With a bit more confidence i decided to be more aggressive and... i spun out 4 times in 2 laps. The last spin left me on the track with an M3, Corvette and a Mustang flying in only a few seconds behind me. Luckily all drivers were very experienced and stopped in time to prevent any collision.

I drove the car into the pits and told the still-cheerful owner, while embarinsgly giving him the keys, that i'm simply not ready for this car yet.


I dare not blame the Elise for any handling deficiency, the deficiency was entirely in my hands and my feet. The car is most definitely not setup to be driven by someone who has no clue what they are doing. The car punishes bad inputs while rewarding correct ones.

I think the FRS is the same. The feeling of driving a piece of soap is simply a by-product of the fact that the car is made to excel when driven properly.

as i mentioned earlier, i am still learning RWD techniques and boy does the FRS keep teaching me new stuff. Every snowstorm that i drive i realize that if i trust the car a bit more, i can push the corners faster, the faster i go the more momentum i carry and the easier the snow is to overcome.

This car needs speed in order to get stability.

and rightly so, getting the car moving is probably the biggest problem. Uphills from a standstill are a pain, no doubt, but such is life (also i haven't loaded up my car with weights yet).

So before you consider selling it, think for a moment what you could get out of it once you learn to trust it a bit more, and that spring and autocross/time attack season is only a few months away for you to really have a go at it.

[kALMIGHTY]

To the OP, I know how you feel. Calgary recently has gotten some of the worst snowfall I've seen in the 8 years I've lived here now, with my dad's huge Honda Pilot getting stuck in the snow a block away from my house! And yet my car managed to plow through the exact same spot without any issues!

This is my very first car, also my very first manual car, also my very first RWD car, and it's been a learning experience, but nothing so far that makes me think this car isn't good enough. It's been absolutely amazing in the snow on good winter tires, but maybe the difference is that I chose to go stock size (215/45/17) for my winter tires, and it's unstoppable. I have no additional weight in the trunk either, because race car.

Not saying you're a bad driver, but a driver mod may help, and I don't mean it condescendingly. Maybe you're like other drivers that see snow on the roads and see it as another one of life's hassles, and then get frustrated when you get stuck. I, on the other hand, see snow and look forward to driving and sliding around in it on the way to work and my classes! A slight change of attitude might be all you need to stay calm and think your way out of a situation, and may help you think of a way to get yourself out on your own if you get stuck in the snow.

I'm not joking about having crappy winters here, by the way. The snow on the sides of my driveway is now much taller than my car! I've never seen anything like this in Calgary!

Hard to see in this picture because it was dark and I wasn't exactly feeling like standing in the cold too long, but the snow is about a foot higher than the roof of the car.