What attributes should Toyota and Subaru retain in the Second Generation FT-86 (aka

[soundman98]

Originally Posted by Opie

It's going to (likely) be based on an existing Toyota platform and use an existing Subaru powertrain. So no huge development costs there, also had Gen1 been priced about $2500 cheaper per trim level at it's launch (and it's 7 year run) it would've reached a larger audience. Most people who were interested in the BRZ/86 and then decided against buying it did see the value/price IMHO. There were better options for the same/less money from the competitors.

2014 Fiesta ST MSRP - $21,400 (tarted up economy car)
2013 Miata MSRP - $24,500 (even less interior space. lol @ grocery run!)
2013 VW GTI - $25,000 (nice runabout, but no performance car)
2013 Hyundai Genesis Coupe - $25,125 (base chassis is the 4-door luxury sedan. it drives like a suburban)
2013 Honda Civic Si - $23,345 (possibly the best fwd econocar)
2013 WRX - $25,795 (still a tarted up impreza)
2013 BRZ MSRP - $25,495

yeah, about that...

[86MLR]

Originally Posted by DarkPira7e

boi it needs dat SOUND TUBE BRO! N' keep dat window switch rattle, I enjoy the company on otherwise noiseless roads breh

Has there been a recall for the window switch rattle?

My 86 doesn't have it!

Is it just a BRZ thing?

I hate missing out on these special features!!!

[NLSP]

Originally Posted by KR-S 86

I want pop-up headlights. Subaru version can have fixed lights.

+1, how it should've been designed from the start...

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by NLSP

+1, how it should've been designed from the start...

As a person that drives my car year round including through ice and snow I will give a hard pass on the pop up headlights!

[Red-86]

Originally Posted by Sasquachulator

Dropping the price is super easy! I mean the car shouldn't have cost as much as it does to begin with!!

Acceptable price is very dependent on the market, bearing in mind this is an international forum.

In Europe, for example, the twins were/are quite expensive as I understand it, and it is surprising what kind of other coupe options were similar prices (e.g. entry level Audi TT for the price of an 86!).

In the USA and Canada, the twins faced stiff competition from base Camaros, Mustangs, and 370Zs for similarish money.

In Australia, my little neck of the woods, the twins have been an absolute bargain! For AUD 35k (less if you haggle like I did) you can drive away today in an 86 GT. Nothing else comes close, since a 2.0 MX-5 RF (to compare to the hardtop twins) is at least AUD 45k with on-road costs, whilst the Nissan 370Z or an Ecoboost Mustang is at least AUD 55k with on-roads. That makes the twins the best value for money RWD coupe you can buy downunder.

[WolfpackS2k]

MSRP in the US is highly inflated. And most people can't afford a $30k car loan, but they still get it because money is easy to get right now.

[p1l0t]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

MSRP in the US is highly inflated. And most people can't afford a $30k car loan, but they still get it because money is easy to get right now.

I can afford it (I'm not most people) but the only reason I even bought a new car is that the loan was almost free. Usually I would buy an old car and fix it up.

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[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

MSRP in the US is highly inflated. And most people can't afford a $30k car loan, but they still get it because money is easy to get right now.

People keep saying this but nobody has yet proven it. They could be losing money on each unit we just don't know. I highly doubt that they are making anything over the standard 5 to 10% they make on any low number car but I can't prove that either.
Not sure that "most" people can't afford a loan anyway since "afford" is a pretty slippery term at the best of times.

[p1l0t]

Don't forget too that there are people who have $30k sitting around, and then there are people with $3k who need a loan. The guy with $15k might opt in for a low miles 2014.. or throw it all down on a Supra..

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[Rabrooks]

Retain the handling. Don't sacrifice it for some creature comfort. The car is a blast to drive.
My car is a 2020 Limited with PP. so maybe I'm a little spoiled with the Sachs dampers and good brakes. I added Eibach Sport springs which lowered it and seems to be a great partner to the dampers. I'm not sure how the non pp car compares to what I have but it is way more than I ever expected from a handling point of view.
Now lets add some power. Take the 3.0l and make it as efficient as the FA20. That would be an awesome NA car. 2800 lbs, 300 hp 240-260 torque. That would be a blast.

[subaru]

Here's a couple fundamental things.


Oh Sh9t handle, so people can get in and out of the lowest subaru in history?

- What were you thinking?

Doors stay open

- If i was rich i'd sue subaru for trying to cut my legs off continuously with a door that cant stay open, ghetto for sure.

[Bowl Full of Crazy]

Originally Posted by Yoniyama

Dear Tada-san,

We are excited about the second generation FT-86. When you try to improve the FT-86, please retain the following attributes of the first generation FT-86:

(1) Pricing - the current FT-86 delivers 90% of the performance for 50% of the price of a Supra. This is a tremendous value proposition. Please keep pricing in line with current offering, ie about US$30,000 (pre-tax) for the US and Japan markets.

(2) No turbo or hybrid engine, a boxer-4 normally aspirated engine will be best. Incorporation of the Toyota New Dynamic Force technology to boost power and efficiency will be much appreciated.

(3) Keep it modification friendly and easy.

(4) Keep away all the non-driving related gadgets, no need for power seats, seat heating, seat massage, inter-net connectivity, automatic driving, power sunroof, or electronic suspension.

(5) Keep the mechanical limited slip differential and manual transmission.

(6) Keep the design pure and simple.

After all, please remember: 'Primum non nocere - first, do no harm'.

Thank you.

I agree 100%. I love the BRZ package (e.g., normally aspirated, simple, few driver assist technologies, etc.) and hope they innovate in an evolutionary manner versus changing the original intent of the car.

Everything I'm reading indicates a move to Toyota's TNGA architecture. If they can insert the 2.4L Subaru flat-four into the next generation BRZ without disturbing the balance/weight, I think that would be ideal.

If some speculation I read is true, the new FA24 could produce ~225HP as a naturally aspirated power plant, which would probably be the sweet spot with this package (and maybe mitigate the controversial flat middle torque curve without resorting to forced induction).

Coincidentally, this would essentially roughly replicate the S2000 power/weight ratio.

[Red-86]

Originally Posted by Bowl Full of Crazy

Everything I'm reading indicates a move to Toyota's TNGA architecture.

What gives you that impression? They may well decide to stick with the existing platform if they are satisfied with incremental improvement at minimum development cost.

Changing to another platform entirely only seems necessary if they decide to go turbo or perhaps hybrid, as supposedly the existing platform isn’t ideal for it (aftermarket FI mods notwithstanding).

Personally, my biggest fear is they may hybridize it or load it with other tech that adds weight, complexity and cost. I really hope they keep it as a normal ICE with nothing unnecessary.

[dowroa]

Originally Posted by Yoniyama

Dear Tada-san,

We are excited about the second generation FT-86. When you try to improve the FT-86, please retain the following attributes of the first generation FT-86:

(1) Pricing - the current FT-86 delivers 90% of the performance for 50% of the price of a Supra. This is a tremendous value proposition. Please keep pricing in line with current offering, ie about US$30,000 (pre-tax) for the US and Japan markets.

(2) No turbo or hybrid engine, a boxer-4 normally aspirated engine will be best. Incorporation of the Toyota New Dynamic Force technology to boost power and efficiency will be much appreciated.

(3) Keep it modification friendly and easy.

(4) Keep away all the non-driving related gadgets, no need for power seats, seat heating, seat massage, inter-net connectivity, automatic driving, power sunroof, or electronic suspension.

(5) Keep the mechanical limited slip differential and manual transmission.

(6) Keep the design pure and simple.

After all, please remember: 'Primum non nocere - first, do no harm'.

Thank you.

Just including what I am looking at the BRZ as a 40-something who has had tons of Subarus (currently have an STI) and I am really interested in the platform.

(1) For the pricing, the performance needs to change. I would buy one as a 3-5 year old track toy, but not for the current asking MSRP. While I understand inflation, I paid 31K not too many years ago for an 05 STi. 25K for an FXT SC. Those were value for dollar. This currently is not.

(2) It needs more torque and power. I don't care how it is done. For everyone else, with the WRX priced the same, it needs to have WRX levels of power or the car is a non-start. For me and the people I care/listen to, if this was a 250hp car at the same weight, "those that shall be heard" would have 0-issue with this car. This is what I am waiting for. If it doesn't change, I will just grab a Champcar in a few years.

(3) If parts were close to interchangable with the WRX/STi, this would be a non-start. This is how the FXT used to be relative to the WRX/STi. More interchangability would meet this mark.

(4) When I drove the launch 335i, I was really surprised how spartan that car was for the price. Getting in the 2017+ BRZ, I thought it was well appointed for purpose (Limited+). No issues here.

(5) If this goes away or gets more complex/expensive (X-drive-ish or ELSD), would not be interested. This is a boutique car on long runs without lots of updates. Give the people that would buy this what they want.

(6) Agree with some modernity.

I agree mostly with the points, other than the engine. That is what has kept me from buying and having one right now (and residual values in the used car market is too high relative to other used cars performance for dollar).

I am still waiting for the slightly more powerful BRZ. Nothing much more, to be honest. Things that have already been stated before -- 06-07 WRX levels of power (or FA20DIT), RWD, < 2900 lbs, 250 hp w/6speed & 235/30/17s.

I am waiting for the announce. If it is close, I would purchase one new if it kept relatively similar aesthetics/great styling and size to the BRZ. If this goes to a `global platform`.. forget it.

For reference (with less power), I was hoping for a RWD watered down P2