I sold it...

[EAGLE5]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Well people are buying a shit load of them. We are working 24/7 just to make enough rotors to meet the current demand.

Yes, and most people are idiots. How often do you see a single person hauling nothing in a Silverado or some other truck? All the time. Actual truck use outnumbers idiot truck use 10 to 1.

[EAGLE5]

Originally Posted by torqdork

Yeah, with gas prices down, the truck/SUV segments are setting sales records across the board from CUV's to full-size luxury brands. Last month combined Tacoma and Tundra pickup sales were up almost 17 percent over last July with the same number of selling days, Lexus luxury utility vehicles were up nearly 28 percent breaking a record going back to 2005.

With captive finance resources churning out subprime loans, there should be lots of used choices in 2-3 years if/when gas prices rise again.

Pickup NVH and content really has come a long way in the past ten years, but so have the prices with top-of-the-line gas pickups approaching $60K, more for the ultimate puller in the horsey set here, a 1-Ton diesel dually.

I live in a pull the horsey neighborhood. Most of the time, they're pulling a single white female. Even in horse land, they're rarely used as intended.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by jsimon7777

Yes, and most people are idiots. How often do you see a single person hauling nothing in a Silverado or some other truck? All the time. Actual truck use outnumbers idiot truck use 10 to 1.

Originally Posted by jsimon7777

I live in a pull the horsey neighborhood. Most of the time, they're pulling a single white female. Even in horse land, they're rarely used as intended.

Never have understood this particular brand of distain for truck owners.

Most vehicles fall into the "not used as intended" category 95% of the time. Heck, Sports Cars often go their entire "lives" never being used as intended by their owners. Most passenger vehicles of all sorts are rarely used "to capacity".

Truck owners, like sports car owners, or van owners, or 4 seat sedan owners, purchase a vehicle to meet a number of needs. Not everyone can afford a vehicle for every occasion, and not everyone wants to rent a vehicle whenever the occasional need arises. Plus, sometimes you just prefer what you prefer, and that should be a good enough reason.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

Never have understood this particular brand of distain for truck owners.

Most vehicles fall into the "not used as intended" category 95% of the time. Heck, Sports Cars often go their entire "lives" never being used as intended by their owners. Most passenger vehicles of all sorts are rarely used "to capacity".

Truck owners, like sports car owners, or van owners, or 4 seat sedan owners, purchase a vehicle to meet a number of needs. Not everyone can afford a vehicle for every occasion, and not everyone wants to rent a vehicle whenever the occasional need arises. Plus, sometimes you just prefer what you prefer, and that should be a good enough reason.

About 80% of the crowd of real people I hang with drive pickups. Many of them actually use them as such but some just like having all that steel wrapped around them and their trucks are more luxurious than many cars. Also some of them simply would not fit in a car anyway (they are wayyyy overweight). We rag on each other all the time because for every reason I can come up with to make a joke about them driving a truck they don't haul stuff in they can come up with one for why I have a sports car I don't use for sports.

[EAGLE5]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

Never have understood this particular brand of distain for truck owners.

Most vehicles fall into the "not used as intended" category 95% of the time. Heck, Sports Cars often go their entire "lives" never being used as intended by their owners. Most passenger vehicles of all sorts are rarely used "to capacity".

Truck owners, like sports car owners, or van owners, or 4 seat sedan owners, purchase a vehicle to meet a number of needs. Not everyone can afford a vehicle for every occasion, and not everyone wants to rent a vehicle whenever the occasional need arises. Plus, sometimes you just prefer what you prefer, and that should be a good enough reason.

Trucks are inefficient, slow to corner, and unsafe if not for the driver than for other vehicles. On country roads, they tend to cross the centerline because they're so hard to drive. A sedan is an all around vehicle. Driving alone in a car instead of a truck far more efficient most of the time, unless you're comparing a hellcat to a Canyon. Most of the reason for truck sales is our messed up federal regulations that allow building bloated massive trucks that are far less efficient than cars. Your fat friends will likely fit fine in an impala.

There is plenty of derision for hard parkers.

[Cmorris8848]

Originally Posted by jsimon7777

Trucks are inefficient, slow to corner, and unsafe if not for the driver than for other vehicles. On country roads, they tend to cross the centerline because they're so hard to drive. A sedan is an all around vehicle. Driving alone in a car instead of a truck far more efficient most of the time, unless you're comparing a hellcat to a Canyon. Most of the reason for truck sales is our messed up federal regulations that allow building bloated massive trucks that are far less efficient than cars. Your fat friends will likely fit fine in an impala.

There is plenty of derision for hard parkers.

The only trucks I have a problem with keeping in the lines are duallies, and that's because the hips are so dang big. Most other trucks are easy to keep in the lines if you're a good driver. I agree they are inefficient when it comes to gas mileage, but that's it. They're not made to take corners well, but neither are jeeps and SUVs. Maybe you just need to take a driving class or two

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by jsimon7777

Trucks are inefficient, slow to corner, and unsafe if not for the driver than for other vehicles. On country roads, they tend to cross the centerline because they're so hard to drive. A sedan is an all around vehicle. Driving alone in a car instead of a truck far more efficient most of the time, unless you're comparing a hellcat to a Canyon. Most of the reason for truck sales is our messed up federal regulations that allow building bloated massive trucks that are far less efficient than cars. Your fat friends will likely fit fine in an impala. ....

Not sure which truck you've been driving but I've never driven a standard/crew cab truck that comes anywhere near the issues you describe, and I've driven some very base trucks going back several decades. Newer ones are really just large cars in terms of ride/etc.

As far as gas mileage, a based Silverado with a V6 is rated at 18/24 and the V8 is rated at 16/23. An Impala is rated at 24/33. Not quite enough to say "far less efficient", plus well, it's an Impala....


And as far as the my "fat Friends" well, those were @Tcoat s friends not mine. My fat friends all ride motorcycles for the most part....


Again, my only point is lots of people drive vehicles that make no sense in their observed situation. For the most part we should all be riding motorcycles or bicycles if the judgment point is does the vehicle meet the current mission at hand.


I'm guessing we will need to agree to disagree, and I'm good with that. In your honor I'll drive my Suburban to work tomorrow instead of the FR-S.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by jsimon7777

Trucks are inefficient, slow to corner, and unsafe if not for the driver than for other vehicles. On country roads, they tend to cross the centerline because they're so hard to drive. A sedan is an all around vehicle. Driving alone in a car instead of a truck far more efficient most of the time, unless you're comparing a hellcat to a Canyon. Most of the reason for truck sales is our messed up federal regulations that allow building bloated massive trucks that are far less efficient than cars. Your fat friends will likely fit fine in an impala.

There is plenty of derision for hard parkers.

Not sure what trucks you have drove but I have never had control issues and I have drove some shit that would make your skin crawl (some of the army trucks I drove in the 70s had been built for the Korean war).
My biggest friend could not get into an Impala if he had too. He is also one of the few that uses the truck as a truck on a regular and ongoing basis though.

[RustySocket]

I like trucks...

[torqdork]

Originally Posted by jsimon7777

I live in a pull the horsey neighborhood. Most of the time, they're pulling a single white female. Even in horse land, they're rarely used as intended.

Cowgirls!

If you haven't driven a new model full-size pickup lately, spend $20 and rent one for a day, I think you'll be impressed. That's what I do every few months to haul loads of rock, topsoil and fertilizer for the garden and then hurry to unload so I can have some fun up in the forest roads.

Last month it was a Silverado V-8 four door with an upmarket trim package but don't recall which. I got it with 20 miles on the odo and returned it with over 150, enough to realize why they could be practical DD's. I got about 16-17 mpg on regular hauling three loads, each weighing 500-1,000 lbs., up and down hilly terrain with ease. When empty, it accelerated, handled and rode much better than expected. Comfort and of course visibility are high points.

If I hauled big loads or towed often, there's not much else out there as versatile and practical as a pickup. Maybe that's why the best-selling vehicle in North America is the F-150 and most full-size truck plants are running at full capacity but still can't meet demand.

[lantsalot]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

Never have understood this particular brand of distain for truck owners.

Most vehicles fall into the "not used as intended" category 95% of the time. Heck, Sports Cars often go their entire "lives" never being used as intended by their owners. Most passenger vehicles of all sorts are rarely used "to capacity".

Truck owners, like sports car owners, or van owners, or 4 seat sedan owners, purchase a vehicle to meet a number of needs. Not everyone can afford a vehicle for every occasion, and not everyone wants to rent a vehicle whenever the occasional need arises. Plus, sometimes you just prefer what you prefer, and that should be a good enough reason.

I'll agree with you on that, I baby the shit outta my FRS and definitely don't use it as it 'should be used' in that sense. But the disdain is there because of the mindset that those who drive trucks usually drive around with. It's generally, "i'm bigger so you always yield to me"....or maybe it's just the 'them versus us' mentality a lot of them seem to carry against sports cars.


Additionally, you know what is annoying as hell? When the big ass diesel truck in front of you at an intersection accelerates when the light turns green, and you literally can't seen anything through the cloud of black smoke that get's sprayed all over your car.

Granted, they don't all drive like entitled, arrogant douches....but in the same way you roll your eyes when you see a honda civic that's 'hella tite yo', a lot of us can't help but do the same when we see a lifted truck F350 with smoke stacks in the middle of downtown phoenix (and lament that they were born with such a small reproductive organ).

And no, I don't hate all truck owners. Just the bad ones

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by lantsalot

,,, But the disdain is there because of the mindset that those who drive trucks usually drive around with. It's generally, "i'm bigger so you always yield to me"....or maybe it's just the 'them versus us' mentality a lot of them seem to carry against sports cars.

Additionally, you know what is annoying as hell? When the big ass diesel truck in front of you at an intersection accelerates when the light turns green, and you literally can't seen anything through the cloud of black smoke that get's sprayed all over your car.

Granted, they don't all drive like entitled, arrogant douches....but in the same way you roll your eyes when you see a honda civic that's 'hella tite yo', a lot of us can't help but do the same when we see a lifted truck F350 with smoke stacks in the middle of downtown phoenix (and lament that they were born with such a small reproductive organ).

And no, I don't hate all truck owners. Just the bad ones

So, in the end, the hate is the same as any other fringe driver of any given vehicle...makes sense. There is probably this exact same conversation in reverse on a truck forum somewhere right now...sort of an alternate universe kinda thing.

[Braces]

Amazing all the hate for trucks. It's just a vehicle that has a purpose. Agreed that not every truck owner uses his truck for that purpose ... but again ....big frickin deal. The "Murican truck owners are probably looking as some of you in the FR-S and sayin ..... Why didn't you buy Murican. See???? Goes both ways. I used to own a F350 Turbo diesel and I absolutely loved that truck.

[EAGLE5]

Originally Posted by Cmorris8848

The only trucks I have a problem with keeping in the lines are duallies, and that's because the hips are so dang big. Most other trucks are easy to keep in the lines if you're a good driver. I agree they are inefficient when it comes to gas mileage, but that's it. They're not made to take corners well, but neither are jeeps and SUVs. Maybe you just need to take a driving class or two

I do not have a problem keeping trucks or my trailer between the lines. Where I live, many, many people do. Duallies are the worst, while but anything but little old Toyotas and Nissans have issues. My road recently had a Mazda pickup flip, killing a kid.

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

Not sure which truck you've been driving but I've never driven a standard/crew cab truck that comes anywhere near the issues you describe, and I've driven some very base trucks going back several decades. Newer ones are really just large cars in terms of ride/etc.

As far as gas mileage, a based Silverado with a V6 is rated at 18/24 and the V8 is rated at 16/23. An Impala is rated at 24/33. Not quite enough to say "far less efficient", plus well, it's an Impala....


And as far as the my "fat Friends" well, those were @Tcoat s friends not mine. My fat friends all ride motorcycles for the most part....


Again, my only point is lots of people drive vehicles that make no sense in their observed situation. For the most part we should all be riding motorcycles or bicycles if the judgment point is does the vehicle meet the current mission at hand.


I'm guessing we will need to agree to disagree, and I'm good with that. In your honor I'll drive my Suburban to work tomorrow instead of the FR-S.

Depending on how you want to play the statistics, you could say that the Impala gets 150% of the Silverado's rated city mileage and 143% of its highway mileage. Any way you cut it, it's a big difference.

I drove the Silverado, Ram, and Tundra. They all drove like trucks. They didn't drive as poorly as some older trucks, but like trucks, not large cars. The only truck-sized vehicle I've driven that drives like a car is the Mercedes GL. I almost bought one.

As for motorcycles, they're deathtraps. Fun, fun deathtraps.

Originally Posted by torqdork

Cowgirls!

If you haven't driven a new model full-size pickup lately, spend $20 and rent one for a day, I think you'll be impressed. That's what I do every few months to haul loads of rock, topsoil and fertilizer for the garden and then hurry to unload so I can have some fun up in the forest roads.

Last month it was a Silverado V-8 four door with an upmarket trim package but don't recall which. I got it with 20 miles on the odo and returned it with over 150, enough to realize why they could be practical DD's. I got about 16-17 mpg on regular hauling three loads, each weighing 500-1,000 lbs., up and down hilly terrain with ease. When empty, it accelerated, handled and rode much better than expected. Comfort and of course visibility are high points.

If I hauled big loads or towed often, there's not much else out there as versatile and practical as a pickup. Maybe that's why the best-selling vehicle in North America is the F-150 and most full-size truck plants are running at full capacity but still can't meet demand.

Like I said, a year ago, I had a Ram V8 8spd for a day. It was horrible to drive. It looked cool in bright red and got compliments. Tons of attention. Did I mention it was horrible to drive? Really, it wasn't all that much better than the 1995 GMC Safari we recently donated. It was quiet on the freeway, at least.

500-1000lbs isn't that much to haul. That's why I tow a trailer with my Forester. The trailer was only $700 or so from Lowes, and it hauls more than most half-ton pickups can carry in their beds. Plus I don't have to lift the load up high.

The only reason I see myself getting a truck is if I get a dedicated track car. And really, I don't see that happening because the FR-S is such a delight at the track and it can drive there and back without beating me up. Even more, if I do get a dedicated track car, I'm thinking Formula something, like a Formula 500. Then I can still haul it with the Forester!