Twins vs M2

[damnitBobby]

Originally Posted by Celica00

So the aspect of the car that your muscle car friends could mostly joke about was the most subjective part of any car? That's pretty weak.


Edit: muscle car guys like to bash anything foreign.

I'm just wondering if his hillbilly friends think the M2 is a girl car, then what do they think about his BRZ

[SPCorBUST]

Originally Posted by damnitBobby

I'm just wondering if his hillbilly friends think the M2 is a girl car, then what do they think about his BRZ

Well, they don't like it too much either. But when my car puts down similar numbers in the rollers as their lightly modded C5 or other cars in the category, they can't say much. And that's not to say that they don't like European cars - just not this one.

Also, I'm in Orange County, CA. The hillbillies you sidewall of are White, Black, Latino, and Asian.

Not sure where you're from, but I suppose ignorance can come from anywhere, right?

EDIT: I see you're from Houston. Is that how it is out there...?

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[SPCorBUST]

Originally Posted by Celica00

So the aspect of the car that your muscle car friends could mostly joke about was the most subjective part of any car? That's pretty weak.


Edit: muscle car guys like to bash anything foreign.

As subjective as a bunch of guys standing around talking about some of the women/models they like.

Is that something you can relate to?

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[Celica00]

Originally Posted by SPCorBUST

As subjective as a bunch of guys standing around talking about some of the women/models they like.

Is that something you can relate to?

Sent from my SM-G925T using Tapatalk

Nope.

[ADRNLNE]

I owned a 135i as shown in my build thread on 1addicts , I haven't tried to test drive the 2 series but I drove many of the latest 3,4 series while my 1er was under the knife and I wasn't impressed.

My viewpoint is subjective, but I bought a twin and sold the bimmer for the following reasons:
-I missed having something that handled well
-Doesn't constantly have large issues(I think after the car's warranty was up that the repair, maintenance, and wear and tear bills averaged about 1500/yr)
-Wasn't too heavy (I missed the feel of my first car, an Integra)
-Got better MPG (my lead foot averaged me 18 in the bimmer, 25 in the brz)
-It could be the lower power, but this clutch and shifter feel better than the bimmer did
-For lack of a better term, that N54 was too moody of an engine for me (one day it would start just fine, the next it would limp for no reason only to be fine for another month or so)

The power was addicting but it wasn't practical for anything on public roads. The n55 in the 2 series has come a long was from the initial version offered and has some good upgrades for longevity and power, I hear they aren't as maintenance prone but I never saw them have the capability of the N54 (this new version in the M2 just might).

[EAGLE5]

Originally Posted by Venom86

I owned a 135i as shown in my build thread on 1addicts , I haven't tried to test drive the 2 series but I drove many of the latest 3,4 series while my 1er was under the knife and I wasn't impressed.

My viewpoint is subjective, but I bought a twin and sold the bimmer for the following reasons:
-I missed having something that handled well
-Doesn't constantly have large issues(I think after the car's warranty was up that the repair, maintenance, and wear and tear bills averaged about 1500/yr)
-Wasn't too heavy (I missed the feel of my first car, an Integra)
-Got better MPG (my lead foot averaged me 18 in the bimmer, 25 in the brz)
-It could be the lower power, but this clutch and shifter feel better than the bimmer did
-For lack of a better term, that N54 was too moody of an engine for me (one day it would start just fine, the next it would limp for no reason only to be fine for another month or so)

The power was addicting but it wasn't practical for anything on public roads. The n55 in the 2 series has come a long was from the initial version offered and has some good upgrades for longevity and power, I hear they aren't as maintenance prone but I never saw them have the capability of the N54 (this new version in the M2 just might).

I came from two E60 5 series in a row. I'm not really looking back. If the M2 were 3000lbs, it would be a different story.

[Gabeisonfire]

Just did a ride along with a professional driver at Road Atlanta last sunday, sort of as a "thank you" for working the BMW weekend there. The power was good, but the amount of grip the car had on two day old tires was what was really impressive. I also did a ride along with the same guy last fall in an M4. On the front and back straight there was a noticeable difference in power, but I honestly couldn't tell a difference in the turns. Great car.

[ShadowReaper]

and I thought 86 vs 3.8 Genesis was the most unfair comparison I have seen lol

[rascasse]

Not sure anyone will be that interested in what i'm about to say but perhaps..

I've been slagging off the 86 in this thread quite a bit and been harping on about the M2 on how great its going to be etc and that the 86 couldn't hold a candle to this new Bimmer..I've never really fallen in love with my car since having it for the last five months until now...

It all comes down to the standard tyres (primacy HP) which in UK winter have been awful IMO. This last week the temp has gone up and we've actually had a bit of sunshine The tyres are now working! the steering feel has gone up 10 fold and feels meatier, the grip has gone way up although of course it still slides but the thing is i have never felt so much confidence of pushing a car on to at least 9/10!

Of course you all know about 86's inherent handling attributes and i thought it was good but now really get to explore the car and the things it can do, well at least while the weather is good lol. The most important attribute of this car imo which is what is making me out handle the majority of cars on the road and making them look silly in the corners is the WEIGHT. I've now come to the conclusion that the M2 just isn't going to be able to compete on that front and i'm going to stick with the 86 platform and develop it.

I would even suggest now that an M2 vs a turboed/SC'd 86/BRZ on better suspension/tyres would have a very tough time against our cars and just wouldn't be as agile, low COG etc because at the end of the day our car is a SPORTS car from scratch and not a coupe born from a hatchback, 3 series whatever it's chassis is based on. Just had to get that off my chest

[Sideways&Smiling]

Originally Posted by rascasse

Not sure anyone will be that interested in what i'm about to say but perhaps..

I've been slagging off the 86 in this thread quite a bit and been harping on about the M2 on how great its going to be etc and that the 86 couldn't hold a candle to this new Bimmer..I've never really fallen in love with my car since having it for the last five months until now...

It all comes down to the standard tyres (primacy HP) which in UK winter have been awful IMO. This last week the temp has gone up and we've actually had a bit of sunshine The tyres are now working! the steering feel has gone up 10 fold and feels meatier, the grip has gone way up although of course it still slides but the thing is i have never felt so much confidence of pushing a car on to at least 9/10!

Of course you all know about 86's inherent handling attributes and i thought it was good but now really get to explore the car and the things it can do, well at least while the weather is good lol. The most important attribute of this car imo which is what is making me out handle the majority of cars on the road and making them look silly in the corners is the WEIGHT. I've now come to the conclusion that the M2 just isn't going to be able to compete on that front and i'm going to stick with the 86 platform and develop it.

I would even suggest now that an M2 vs a turboed/SC'd 86/BRZ on better suspension/tyres would have a very tough time against our cars and just wouldn't be as agile, low COG etc because at the end of the day our car is a SPORTS car from scratch and not a coupe born from a hatchback, 3 series whatever it's chassis is based on. Just had to get that off my chest

That's quite a revelation for merely driving stock tires in warmer conditions. You should definitely try driving the car with some real tires on it.

[rascasse]

Originally Posted by Sideways&Smiling

That's quite a revelation for merely driving stock tires in warmer conditions. You should definitely try driving the car with some real tires on it.

Haha I know huh! plus I still hate the stock tyres, take this morning for example temp has gone down again and they just don't work sliding all over the place with not enough warning. I can't wait to get some decent tyres on this thing. I really can't wait for these to wear out!


A question though, with decent tyres on, does it still feel playful? I know this probably depends on tyre choice but just curious..

[TylerLieberman]

Soooo, I've been driving the M2 quite a bit this morning. Did the auto-X and track session with them. Got some other stuff to do and other cars to drive.

I'm still here though, and I'm "working" while I'm here so I don't have time to put down my full thoughts. I'll give my thoughts and opinions on the car sometime before the weekend.

[rascasse]

Look forward to your review Tyler

[TylerLieberman]

Ok, so I was able to get home much earlier than I thought today, and I'm still winding down from the trip, so going to bed is out of the question. That being said, I figured I'd just get started and jot down my thoughts on the car after driving it today.

As always, keep in mind that this is all my opinion, but I try to be as blunt, honest, and unbiased as possible. I've done some reivews of other cars that can be found on the forums, and I typically get a good amount of positive feedback. I'll try and make this review honest as well; hopefully I don't hurt any feelings lol.

First, let me get started on why I was even there driving the cars... It was work related, and had to deal with the training on the release of the new M2, as well as the new M3 & M4 Competition, as well as the new M4 GTS. While we were there, we drove the M2 and two of its "competitors": The Audi TTS, and the Mercedes CLA45 AMG. We drove on a very tight, autocross style course, and then drove it on one of the road courses. All in all, I'd say I got about a solid two hours of actually driving the M2 today. Add another hour or so riding shotgun. The other half of the day was spent in a classroom. Pretty typical stuff.

While I'm no professional driver, or claim to be, I like to think of myself as a competent driver, one that's good for my age (24yrs old), and I have a good understanding of the basics. Most of my seat time has been drifting, but I've done some instructional driving/racing stuff and have driven a good variety of different cars, especially the past 6 months, including: M3, M4, M5, X5 M, Mustang GT, WRX, STI, FRS, and GTR. That being said, I'm no pro by any means, but it also isn't my first time driving in a performance environment.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lyb0NU5pH_8"]BMW M2 Testing - YouTube[/ame]

The reason I say this is because I know that the car definitely has more performance on the table, and I wasn't being held back.. But I also wasn't a noob whiping the thing all over the place like crazy and saying "OMG the car was the greatest car in the world!!!!"










So let's get started.

You already know the specs, so I won't waste your time with all of that. What I can tell you, is that the car is absolutely PHENOMENAL! While the car isn't really all that much lighter than the M3 and M4, the car feels so much more playful and lively underneath you. I think the shorter wheelbase plays a part in that, as well as the suspension tuning and other changes they've made to this car.

Turn in is immediate and while the steering is electric and a little on the light side, I felt that there was a good amount of feedback from the front wheels. Definitely a step up from the FRS, though I honestly prefer the heavier weighted steering of my '16 STI more, which is a hydraulic system.

The brakes were good and consistent. Good feedback through the pedal. The cars were on the standard steel brakes. From my understanding, there will NOT be a CCB option for the car like on the M3s and M4s. The CCBs on those cars are fantastic. They have great bite and are extremely consistent. I believe the M2s at the track today had upgraded pads, but I can't be certain. Either way, I didn't really notice any fade from the brakes, but in all fairness, I was only really able to drive at like 6/10ths because all of the driver assists had to be left on. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the experiened guys on here were able to cook them a bit after a couple hard laps at their pace.

The engine note is a lot better in my opinion compared to the M3 and M4. It has a much more traditional sounding I6. Very smooth and intoxicating. Not farty and obnoxious like the 3 & 4. I love it; it makes nice little crackles and pops on downshifts too. Power delivery is really smooth, lag is very minimal. The car seems to breathe really well in the top end too, which is nice; Especially considering that it was 90+ degrees out there today. They never felt like they were struggling or anything. The power carries all the way to 7k and with the shifts being so instantaneous, it kicks you back with every gear change.

The biggest plus for me is the size of the M2. It just feels like the size an M car should be. The M3/4 have gotten a bit big, but they're still really good cars. I just feel like the M2 really helps exaggerate the level of engagement because of the size. It feels noticeably more connected. It reminds me of the FRS in terms of size, but just much more refined and at a higher level of performance out of the box.

The not so good
The car isn't without faults and downsides though. The biggest for me was the seats. The M2 does not utilize the same M seats that are found in the M3 and M4. Instead, they use the same type of seats found in the M235i. One of the gentlemen there swore they had more aggressive bolstering, but they honestly felt the same as the M235i. That isn't to say that they're bad seats by any means. They're very comfortable, but they just don't have the same support as the deeper buckets on the M3/4. There was one long left hand sweeper that I was taking at around 75mph, and I felt like I was going to slide out of the seat a little bit. The car grips really well though- I'm sure we were pulling 1.1 or 1.2 G or so through that corner. All I can say is thank God for the kneepads they put in the car. If it weren't for those, my legs would probably have a bruise or two on them #bunta lol.

Another downside is that you don't get the same level of adjustability as you do in the M3/4. The M3/4, you can adjust settings for the damper, throttle response, steering etc. You also get 3 shift settings available to select between. In the M2, it's all preset depending on which mode you're in (Comfort, Sport, Sport +). It's not bad, but it was nice to have the option to adjust settings individually in the M3 to suit your liking. I sense that BMW held it back to keep it from being too close to the M3/4, much like Porsche did to the Cayman and 911. After driving it, I'm willing to bet that if the car had the CCBs and a touch more power, like 380hp, it would DEMOLISH the M3 around the track.

Another thing I noticed was the interference of the drivers aids. On the M3/4, they're very intrusive, and keep you from going anywhere near the throttle when the car has any sort of steering input dialed in. The M2 is similar in that sense, but it doesn't feel as severe. I felt as though it let you get a little more spirited before wanting to kick in and dial it back a notch. I would have loved to see what the car is like without the assists, as I'm sure it'd be even better, but the staff don't like us do it; which I totally understand since we had a few hot headed individuals who overcooked a couple corners and almost put the car into a ditch (you can actually hear one of the staff member yell at one of the guys in the video I posted over the radio because he was getting stupid)

Overall verdict
So, overall.. I say if you can swing the 55k or so for an M2 and are looking for that type of vehicle.. GET IT! Get your name on a list and reserve it ASAP! *IT IS A LOW VOLUME CAR, NOT A LIMITED PRODUCTION CAR* That means that it will be produced for a few years, and in greater numbers than the 1M, but not as many as the current M3/4. If you knew how much extra you got over an M235i for basically $5,000, you'd instantly see the car is worth every penny of the extra cost, and then some. An M235i with an optional LSD, Nav, M exhaust, and rear camera will sticker for about 55k. An M2 with the rear camera and a DCT($2,900 option alone) will sticker for about the same, excluding whatever markup dealers are adding to them.

If you want something a little less aggressive and more compient on the street, the M235i is a great option. If you want the all out car with all the bells and whistles, the M3/M4 is the way to go. The M2 is for that niche market, just like the FRS/BRZ is. Yes, you'll get the random people that buy it just to buy it, but the enthusiasts who really know what this car represents and buy it, they'll love every minute of it.

Would I buy one?
Ehhhhh.... Honestly, I don't know. Not right now, that's for sure. But, while I really love the car, I don't know if I love it enough to spend $200-$300 more a month on it compared to my STI. The seats are honestly my biggest gripe, and I feel like at that price, in a car so focused on driver engagement, the seats need to be bang on. Who knows, maybe one day I'll pull the trigger on one... Or an M3. The only things I'm not really a huge fan of on the M3 are the size and the exhaust note. Other than that, I love it. For the M2, just the seats and lack of adjustability. Aside from that, I love it as well haha. If I had to choose between the two, I honestly couldn't really tell you right now. Maybe I need to sleep on it; it's been such a long day haha. I'll get back to you guys in a day or two.

Sorry about this one not being as thorough. I've been up since 2am. Spent about 5 hours commuting today, and then about 8 hours at the track in 90 degree weather. Needless to say, I'm a bit tired. I hope this helps though. The car is absolutely sublime. After driving it, I see easily why it gets so much praise from everybody reviewing it. I feel like if it just came with better seats and the programmable M modes to change your settings, it would be the perfect M car of the modern era.

If anybody has any questions, please feel free to ask.

Thanks!