When the FR-S get a HP increase...

[Decay107]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Toyota's first direct injection system 'D4' was implemented in 1996, the D4-S as we know it today was brought to market on 2006 model vehicles (so in 2005), most definitely not 'new' in any sense.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_GR_engine#2GR-FSE

Gracias! I was not aware of that.


Well then what about the elephant in the room? Toyota obviously invented, for this platform, the idea of sending power exclusively to the rear wheels! I think that counts as a pretty significant advancement in technology.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Decay107

Gracias! I was not aware of that.


Well then what about the elephant in the room? Toyota obviously invented, for this platform, the idea of sending power exclusively to the rear wheels! I think that counts as a pretty significant advancement in technology.

You may be on to something!
Maybe if they replaced the driveshaft and diff with a sprocket and chain then the car can go faster!!!!!

[Tromatic]

When someone posts in the "What do you hate" thread, God kills a kitten. And I think I'm the only person to ever post "went for a drive" in the "What did you do" thread.

Originally Posted by nikitopo

I think the car is too much focused. It is a very good car but mainly for racers and/or tuners. Rest of the world wants turbo or a bigger displacement from the factory. That's the sad truth.

Strongly disagree. 60K sold, and this forum is only a very small percentage of those, and not everybody here thinks it needs more POWAH! Would I like a turbo or bigger engine? Sure. Would I have paid 30K or more for the FR-S? Probably not.

I did not stay in Holiday Inn, but I did have to take an opiate for back pain, so my opinion counts: The FR-S, as designed by Mr. Tada, despite the heinous regulations, laws, and specs he had to work with, is fuckin' perfect.

Like Louis Jordan said, if you dislike anything about this car, Jack you dead!

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NAUeL0D4SI"]Louis Jordan Jack, You're Dead - YouTube[/ame]

[Tcoat]

There is always something to complain about!!!!!!

[HotLavaChick]

no where to put her starbucks mocha Double Tall Nonfat Latte hold the whip hmmmm?

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by HotLavaChick

no where to put her starbucks mocha Double Tall Nonfat Latte hold the whip hmmmm?

Ya she probably scrapped it!

[LucidMomentum]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Ya she probably scrapped it!

Gimme the engine. Let's give these forums something to really complain about

[D.Scrye]

I'm glad this thread came along; since I killed the crickets off with two stroke oil, I've not been able to think of anything to complain about.

[PHLonomenal]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

There is always something to complain about!!!!!!

She's "special"


Sent from my StarTrek communicator using Tapatalk

[nikitopo]

I like my car because I like to race. What I am saying is most of the people don't race. Many countries don't even have the infrastructure to support this. And most people don't want to mod. If you put a twin on the street you can say that it provides a "sporty" drive, but not an actual fast drive. The specs are outdated with the current trend.


After saying all these, I would be really happy if more people could join race circuits and had the opportunity to get happy with the car.

[totopo]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Yes. The goal of a fast lap is utilizing 100% of the traction available to you, whilst turning in a Miata you cannot pound the throttle because you are traveling at speed while accelerating laterally, an excessive throttle input would exceed the grip available, exactly the same as a ZR1. Sure you can be more aggressive on the throttle with the Miata and be on the power more quickly but the balance is still there, the finesse is still there.

The advantage of the racing line is not in speed but rather defense and flexibility, the line run for qualifying will differ from the line run during a racing lap, the point of some of the authors you've brought up is that if done correctly the amount of speed sacrificed is minimal. But again the techniques applied are the same, the physics don't change.

I found a footcam from a race prepped RSX, now I do not know what level the power is but a base model started at 160 and the S was at 200, and it is FWD, note that there is no "foot on the floor action" the throttle gets rolled on progressively, albeit quickly, in most cases.




Next up is a Spec Miata, no need to watch the whole video, the first minute prooves the point quite well:


And of course there's Ayrton Senna in the NSX around Suzuka, that car at the time had 270 horses, not much standing on the gas pedal there either imo as he didn't have a bunch of practice time it most certainly wasn't the fastest possible lap, there's more speed to be found for him:

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

I don't know what those drivers told you about driving an FR-S or what their actual track experience with the car is, but you can't just "slam on the gas at apex" and expect the rear to hold. If you're cornering anywhere near the limit and try that, you will power oversteer into a spin. The car loads up the front and rear pretty evenly in corners. So if you apply throttle too aggressively at apex, you overpower the remaining traction at the rear end and get rotation. As stratcaster61 said, it's just physics.

You should really try driving an FR-S on the track and forming an opinion for yourself. I'm not saying you'd have bought it over your 370z (not sure why you brought the 370z up), but I'm simply saying if you're going to try to describe for others the behavior of the FR-S at the limit, you should do it from experience. Just my 2c.

Okay, so maybe I was exaggerating with "slam on the gas", but have either of you driven high HP cars at the track? The ayrton senna nsx had more hp than the tires at the time, so it also drives like a higher hp car, why he has to do his famous pedal-pumping. Are you really telling me the throttle application on an fr-s is basically the same as one in a corvette zr1?

With the miata and fr-s, there really isn't too much throttle control at corner exit. You kind of just roll onto it all the way, maybe countersteer a little if you roll on too early, but that's about it. You get fully on the gas pretty early and there's not much drama. Whereas in a higher hp car, until you are completely straight, you are never completely out of the clear with your gas (and in REALLY high hp cars you aren't even in the clear in the straights). You have to be a lot more diligent and careful, and your foot has to become a lot more sensitive. I talked to many instructors/racers and the consensus was that the fr-s is fun and easy to drive, and is forgiving and teaches you steering input well, but it doesn't have enough power to really learn throttle control. I don't know how to put it much better. If you have gran turismo it is a decent example.

This may illustrate a little. The first N2 car has a little more power compared to traction compared to the second:

[ame]http://youtu.be/MfRy6R9-vj4?t=49s[/ame]


starting at 8:17 if the embed doesn't work properly.
[ame]http://youtu.be/7hXz6_nFLRA?t=8m17s[/ame]


Anyways, my long winded point, is that yes, there is a valid reason for wanting more hp on the track. And not just for track times. If this car had 190hp, would you say it was enough? 150hp? 100hp? 50hp?

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by totopo

With the miata and fr-s, there really isn't too much throttle control at corner exit.

You didn't watch my videos, my response is a copy paste of what I've already posted. Your videos of the N2 AE86 only reinforces my point as that car was advertised as having at most 215 horses at the crank and every single corner those guys are rolling on the throttle, modulating it to maximize their grip. It'd be interesting to compare the racing tires used in the videos to the road tires most of us are using today but that's beyond our armchair quarterbacking capabilities.

This guy built a replica of those cars and hit 200 at the wheels, that's the realm of an S2000 or a Toyobaru running E85.

http://www.speedhunters.com/2012/08/...s-n2-machine/d

http://www.delicioustuning.com/Stock..._Breaks_200whp

I maintain if you aren't learning throttle control in a Toyobaru you aren't going fast enough to maximize the grip of your tires.

Edit: I get the feeling we are arguing over what constitutes 'throttle control' you think it's tip-toeing and waiting for the straight, babying it to get out of the corner and I think it's every condition that isn't 100% as exemplified in every video traded between us. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on this point.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by totopo

Okay, so maybe I was exaggerating with "slam on the gas", but have either of you driven high HP cars at the track? The ayrton senna nsx had more hp than the tires at the time, so it also drives like a higher hp car, why he has to do his famous pedal-pumping. Are you really telling me the throttle application on an fr-s is basically the same as one in a corvette zr1?

With the miata and fr-s, there really isn't too much throttle control at corner exit. You kind of just roll onto it all the way, maybe countersteer a little if you roll on too early, but that's about it. You get fully on the gas pretty early and there's not much drama. Whereas in a higher hp car, until you are completely straight, you are never completely out of the clear with your gas (and in REALLY high hp cars you aren't even in the clear in the straights). You have to be a lot more diligent and careful, and your foot has to become a lot more sensitive. I talked to many instructors/racers and the consensus was that the fr-s is fun and easy to drive, and is forgiving and teaches you steering input well, but it doesn't have enough power to really learn throttle control. I don't know how to put it much better. If you have gran turismo it is a decent example.

This may illustrate a little. The first N2 car has a little more power compared to traction compared to the second:

Anyways, my long winded point, is that yes, there is a valid reason for wanting more hp on the track. And not just for track times. If this car had 190hp, would you say it was enough? 150hp? 100hp? 50hp?

If you're backing down from your "slamming on the gas" point, then ok. Now it seems like you're saying that a 638 hp Vette ZR1 will require more throttle discipline than a FR-S, to which I'll say duh.

Re. higher horsepower RWD cars, yes - I've owned a 350z (300 hp) and 987.2 Boxster S (310 hp).

The funny thing is (and what you seem to be missing is), the proper technique for exiting a corner isn't that different between my previous cars and the FR-S. In all three, you need to roll onto the throttle at apex while unwinding the steering. If you overcook the throttle in any of those cars, you will need to countersteer. The FR-S is no different. While it has the least power, it also has the most neutral chassis setup of the three and the most aggressive diff lockup.

Lastly the driving dynamics of the FR-S on GT5 are quite off from my experience. Haven't tried GT6, but I'll go back to my original point. Before attempting to comment about the "on the limit" driving behavior of the FR-S, you really should try driving one at the track. It's different than what you're describing.