Subaru trying to deny my warranty please help!

[Jordan Silveira]

Moderators: I don't mean to SPAM this topic I am just not sure exactly where to post it and feel having it in numerous areas of the forums will help get the most feedback. Thank you!


Hey there FT86 family,

Admittedly, I have been holding back from writing this because I feel like an idiot for even finding myself in this predicament and more so, because I undoubtedly expect some people to doubt my story that I know as truth. Not to mention, the internet is full of those who take joy in watching others pitfalls. Anyways, here it goes. I am looking for any help, support, advice, or knowledge that can help me get out of this situation as intact as possible. I have been in major stress since Monday and figure it’s worth taking a shot seeing what type of responses this post will garner.


I bought a 2016 BRZ Series.Hyperblue for 2,000 off MSRP from Subaru of Glendale with 193 miles on it. I was told the car would still maintain all factory and manufacturer warranties (which still seems to be the case). However, I was sold the car as used. I was told the car was an unwind vehicle and while being asked to keep this information quiet, the car was purchased by a salesman in order to hit the monthly sales quota and then unwound. Unfortunately, upon purchasing the car something with this story seemed to be shifty as from what I know now, that all may be true but there also seems to be an owner who purchased the car in late January. Anyways, I dismissed it because the car ran perfectly and rest assured, I had manufacturer warranties if anything was seriously wrong. With that said, I had driven the car with absolutely no issues for three months until I took the car to be tinted and upon picking up my car, the car failed to start. I tried everything from forum searching, to attempting to jump start the car, and to no avail, nothing worked. The vehicle had full electricity from alarms, stereo, lights, etc. However, the engine would not turn over (crank). The steering wheel was locked and I was being shown a blinking immobilizer light on my cluster. In conjunction with this, when I would press on the clutch it would recognize my key fob was in range (per the light on the cluster). Finally, I gave up and had the car towed to Puente Hills Subaru {PHS} (Subaru Roadside wouldn’t assist so Geico was my only option and they towed the car to the nearest dealer).


From this point, I initially received a call from a service advisor at PHS stating that my ECU was producing readings (ignition count, etc.) with all values indicating “0”. He then told me he had not seen anything like this and that despite the unusual circumstance he would keep “prodding”. However, before he let me go he asked if I had ever “tuned or flashed” my car. I told him no because to my knowledge the vehicle never had been. I know at the very least I for sure did nothing of the sort. The next day I received a call from the Service Manager at PHS asking me for a full detailed history of the car and I gladly obliged telling him everything from the time I bought it up until it arrived on their lot. At that point, he told me he noticed the tint stickers saying the windows should not be rolled down and I confirmed the car head been tinted the day it stopped working. He then told me either I or the tint shop was being dishonest (insinuating I was lying) and that according to him my car had been “flashed or tuned” with a “2015 STi profile using a COBB Accessport”. He then proceeded to tell me that was the reason my car would not start because the ECU was locked up with a profile it didn’t recognize. After staunchly denying his allegations, he told me he had already spoken with a Subaru of America technician to have my car flagged as modified for this alleged “flash or tune”. He then told me I had two options, to find this accessport that my car was married to, or pay for a new ECU as my warranty would be denied for this repair and more than likely any other future engine or powertrain problems should they arise.


I then went to the place where my car was tinted and sat with the owner for upwards of an hour and a half watching surveillance footage of my car from the time I dropped it off to the moment the car was towed away. During this time, I could find no time where foul play could be insinuated. Moreover, I called the service manager who wrongly accused me and told him what I was currently doing and that I would like some proof of his alleged claims. He told me that he could do so as soon as I decided to pay for the service or towed the car off of their lot. He then told me he had “9 minutes to get to a meeting across the street” the moment myself or the owner of the tint shop wanted to speak with him. All he did was reaffirm his allegations that my car was tuned with the aforementioned “2015 STi profile using the COBB accessport”. He also claimed that this would have had to been done to the car right before it’s mechanical/electrical failure based on his ECU readings printout of all zero’s for the values listed. Later in the day, the service manager called me to tell me that he was mistaken in his allegations regarding the “2015 STi profile/COBB Accessport” but that he remained steadfast in his claims that my car was “tuned or flashed” but that upon further research with a Subaru of America technician my car was producing these zero readings with the profile of a 2015 BRZ and that the calibration ID’s and numbers were not matching the VIN of the vehicle. He then told me he found two previous owners on the history of the car prior to me (an owner who originally purchased the car in late January, and “one of those Glendale names” (WOW prejudice much?!?!). I told him I had no idea and never did anything he was claiming. He told me frankly it didn’t matter what I was claiming because he had proof saying otherwise and regardless of whether or not I did it, the “tune/flash” whenever it occurred would still allow denial of my warranty repair and a “flagging” of my vehicle for future servicing needs. I then was asked by the same guy to deliver my second key as he was going to try and make the car operate/run with the current profile system of a 2015 BRZ. I then obliged and gave him the key and during my time there he showed me a printout of my vehicle and readings with values of “0” while also showing me what it would otherwise look like by comparing my readings with other customer’s readings of the day. He even went so far to tell me that he had seen so many people come in pleading for mercy and bailout and that Subaru of America would even sometimes provide up to 75% of the repair costs if they would just come clean on the alleged modifications. I told him I had nothing to come clean about because I honestly did nothing to the vehicle. He then told me he would be rich if he had a dime for every time someone lied to his face about modifying their vehicle. He then told me he would try his best to get the car working on its current situation but couldn’t guarantee me anything because of the alleged “tune/flash”.


I then opened up a case with Subaru of America detailing the aforementioned events for the gross lack of professionalism, wrongful persecution despite my staunch denial of his allegations, amongst many other issues. I was then told they would look into the matter and within the next day I received a call from the Service Manager asking if his conversation with a Subaru of America regarding my displeasure of the case was accurate and I told him yes. He then told me to come pick my car up and tow it away indicating he was refusing service to my car from here on out. I called SoA and they told me they gave absolutely no directive for such measures to refuse service but that all authorized Subaru Retailers were independently owned and could do as they wished regarding service but that they would note this on my case and further investigate. The story goes on and on but rather than elaborate on an already longer series of events than most will even read through, as it currently stands my car is still in PHS’s service lot and starting next week SoA will be sending a warranty/district rep to inspect and investigate all the findings and determine if whether or not my car will be covered by warranty for this repair and going forward if indeed the Service Manager’s allegations are true.


In short, I am wondering if any of you who have stuck around long enough to read this would have any idea if any of his allegations are even possible, if you have any advice to save me from what seems to be the inevitable consequences for something I did not do, or any other further information/comments.


Thank you so much,


Jordan

[ryoma]

your best bet would be to try your luck at the dealership you bought the car from. if the previous owner did flash the ECU and it was the source of the problem, then regardless if you did it or not, it sounds like you are screwed.

[krayzie]

Originally Posted by Jordan Silveira

Moderators: I don't mean to SPAM this topic I am just not sure exactly where to post it and feel having it in numerous areas of the forums will help get the most feedback. Thank you!


Hey there FT86 family,

Admittedly, I have been holding back from writing this because I feel like an idiot for even finding myself in this predicament and more so, because I undoubtedly expect some people to doubt my story that I know as truth. Not to mention, the internet is full of those who take joy in watching others pitfalls. Anyways, here it goes. I am looking for any help, support, advice, or knowledge that can help me get out of this situation as intact as possible. I have been in major stress since Monday and figure it’s worth taking a shot seeing what type of responses this post will garner.


I bought a 2016 BRZ Series.Hyperblue for 2,000 off MSRP from Subaru of Glendale with 193 miles on it. I was told the car would still maintain all factory and manufacturer warranties (which still seems to be the case). However, I was sold the car as used. I was told the car was an unwind vehicle and while being asked to keep this information quiet, the car was purchased by a salesman in order to hit the monthly sales quota and then unwound. Unfortunately, upon purchasing the car something with this story seemed to be shifty as from what I know now, that all may be true but there also seems to be an owner who purchased the car in late January. Anyways, I dismissed it because the car ran perfectly and rest assured, I had manufacturer warranties if anything was seriously wrong. With that said, I had driven the car with absolutely no issues for three months until I took the car to be tinted and upon picking up my car, the car failed to start. I tried everything from forum searching, to attempting to jump start the car, and to no avail, nothing worked. The vehicle had full electricity from alarms, stereo, lights, etc. However, the engine would not turn over (crank). The steering wheel was locked and I was being shown a blinking immobilizer light on my cluster. In conjunction with this, when I would press on the clutch it would recognize my key fob was in range (per the light on the cluster). Finally, I gave up and had the car towed to Puente Hills Subaru {PHS} (Subaru Roadside wouldn’t assist so Geico was my only option and they towed the car to the nearest dealer).


From this point, I initially received a call from a service advisor at PHS stating that my ECU was producing readings (ignition count, etc.) with all values indicating “0”. He then told me he had not seen anything like this and that despite the unusual circumstance he would keep “prodding”. However, before he let me go he asked if I had ever “tuned or flashed” my car. I told him no because to my knowledge the vehicle never had been. I know at the very least I for sure did nothing of the sort. The next day I received a call from the Service Manager at PHS asking me for a full detailed history of the car and I gladly obliged telling him everything from the time I bought it up until it arrived on their lot. At that point, he told me he noticed the tint stickers saying the windows should not be rolled down and I confirmed the car head been tinted the day it stopped working. He then told me either I or the tint shop was being dishonest (insinuating I was lying) and that according to him my car had been “flashed or tuned” with a “2015 STi profile using a COBB Accessport”. He then proceeded to tell me that was the reason my car would not start because the ECU was locked up with a profile it didn’t recognize. After staunchly denying his allegations, he told me he had already spoken with a Subaru of America technician to have my car flagged as modified for this alleged “flash or tune”. He then told me I had two options, to find this accessport that my car was married to, or pay for a new ECU as my warranty would be denied for this repair and more than likely any other future engine or powertrain problems should they arise.


I then went to the place where my car was tinted and sat with the owner for upwards of an hour and a half watching surveillance footage of my car from the time I dropped it off to the moment the car was towed away. During this time, I could find no time where foul play could be insinuated. Moreover, I called the service manager who wrongly accused me and told him what I was currently doing and that I would like some proof of his alleged claims. He told me that he could do so as soon as I decided to pay for the service or towed the car off of their lot. He then told me he had “9 minutes to get to a meeting across the street” the moment myself or the owner of the tint shop wanted to speak with him. All he did was reaffirm his allegations that my car was tuned with the aforementioned “2015 STi profile using the COBB accessport”. He also claimed that this would have had to been done to the car right before it’s mechanical/electrical failure based on his ECU readings printout of all zero’s for the values listed. Later in the day, the service manager called me to tell me that he was mistaken in his allegations regarding the “2015 STi profile/COBB Accessport” but that he remained steadfast in his claims that my car was “tuned or flashed” but that upon further research with a Subaru of America technician my car was producing these zero readings with the profile of a 2015 BRZ and that the calibration ID’s and numbers were not matching the VIN of the vehicle. He then told me he found two previous owners on the history of the car prior to me (an owner who originally purchased the car in late January, and “one of those Glendale names” (WOW prejudice much?!?!). I told him I had no idea and never did anything he was claiming. He told me frankly it didn’t matter what I was claiming because he had proof saying otherwise and regardless of whether or not I did it, the “tune/flash” whenever it occurred would still allow denial of my warranty repair and a “flagging” of my vehicle for future servicing needs. I then was asked by the same guy to deliver my second key as he was going to try and make the car operate/run with the current profile system of a 2015 BRZ. I then obliged and gave him the key and during my time there he showed me a printout of my vehicle and readings with values of “0” while also showing me what it would otherwise look like by comparing my readings with other customer’s readings of the day. He even went so far to tell me that he had seen so many people come in pleading for mercy and bailout and that Subaru of America would even sometimes provide up to 75% of the repair costs if they would just come clean on the alleged modifications. I told him I had nothing to come clean about because I honestly did nothing to the vehicle. He then told me he would be rich if he had a dime for every time someone lied to his face about modifying their vehicle. He then told me he would try his best to get the car working on its current situation but couldn’t guarantee me anything because of the alleged “tune/flash”.


I then opened up a case with Subaru of America detailing the aforementioned events for the gross lack of professionalism, wrongful persecution despite my staunch denial of his allegations, amongst many other issues. I was then told they would look into the matter and within the next day I received a call from the Service Manager asking if his conversation with a Subaru of America regarding my displeasure of the case was accurate and I told him yes. He then told me to come pick my car up and tow it away indicating he was refusing service to my car from here on out. I called SoA and they told me they gave absolutely no directive for such measures to refuse service but that all authorized Subaru Retailers were independently owned and could do as they wished regarding service but that they would note this on my case and further investigate. The story goes on and on but rather than elaborate on an already longer series of events than most will even read through, as it currently stands my car is still in PHS’s service lot and starting next week SoA will be sending a warranty/district rep to inspect and investigate all the findings and determine if whether or not my car will be covered by warranty for this repair and going forward if indeed the Service Manager’s allegations are true.


In short, I am wondering if any of you who have stuck around long enough to read this would have any idea if any of his allegations are even possible, if you have any advice to save me from what seems to be the inevitable consequences for something I did not do, or any other further information/comments.


Thank you so much,


Jordan

Can you start the car with the keyfob physically touching the push start button?

If the steering wheel is locked, turn the wheel slightly so the lock isn't binding and try to start it (bet you this is the root cause, I came across this 20 years ago with the Integra and figured it out with the hairdresser lol, and if you google this it still exists with Push Button Start cars).

For example: http://www.rav4world.com/forums/99-4...nt-solved.html

[Kostamojen]

Get a lawyer ASAP.

This doesn't sound like Subaru's fault (as in the company itself) but either the Dealership who sold you the car or the Tint shop did something. But in any case, you need a Lawyer right now.

[mav1178]

Trying?
Sounds like you haven't even gotten past the regional rep and you've only dealt with a dealer.

If you don't want to deal with this service manager, give South Coast Subaru a call. Tell Ferdie that Alex sent you.

I never liked Puente Hills Subaru, especially since they tried to sell me a car in 2013 with a $4000 markup.

-alex

[Jordan Silveira]

Thank you all for your quick responses. This has a very stressful week to say the least. I had tried everything insofar as turning the wheel, holding the fob close to the push start and nothing worked. I tried for a good 2-3 hours straight as I waited for a tow.

I have looked into getting a lawyer but frankly the financial commitment is what is limiting me from acquiring one at the moment.

[Jordan Silveira]

Originally Posted by mav1178

Trying?
Sounds like you haven't even gotten past the regional rep and you've only dealt with a dealer.

If you don't want to deal with this service manager, give South Coast Subaru a call. Tell Ferdie that Alex sent you.

I never liked Puente Hills Subaru, especially since they tried to sell me a car in 2013 with a $4000 markup.

-alex

Do you have experience in a matter like this? It sounds like you're familiar with the process of dealing with the regional rep and what not? What's the whole process look like in summation?

[CCJ]

Originally Posted by Kostamojen

Get a lawyer ASAP.

This doesn't sound like Subaru's fault (as in the company itself) but either the Dealership who sold you the car or the Tint shop did something. But in any case, you need a Lawyer right now.

lofuckingl. The tint shop? The dealership that sold the car? Lawyer up asap?

Please explain.

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by Jordan Silveira

Do you have experience in a matter like this? It sounds like you're familiar with the process of dealing with the regional rep and what not? What's the whole process look like in summation?

The process:

dealer inspection > warranty work > claim approval or denial by Subaru regional rep > dealer gets paid or doesn't get paid.

From what I can see, the dealer is stupid and doesn't know how to submit proper claims, or they have submitted similar claims in the past and they got denied.

At this point, your fastest option is to find a dealer willing to work with you on this issue. If you cannot find a dealer, then start putting together a timeline w/ documented facts and find a lawyer.

But seriously, give South Coast Subaru a call. If needed, ask for Ferdie and let him know the situation, because assuming your facts are correct this is a fairly simple warranty fix that any dealer wanting money will take.

-alex

[Jordan Silveira]

Originally Posted by mav1178

The process:

dealer inspection > warranty work > claim approval or denial by Subaru regional rep > dealer gets paid or doesn't get paid.

From what I can see, the dealer is stupid and doesn't know how to submit proper claims, or they have submitted similar claims in the past and they got denied.

At this point, your fastest option is to find a dealer willing to work with you on this issue. If you cannot find a dealer, then start putting together a timeline w/ documented facts and find a lawyer.

But seriously, give South Coast Subaru a call. If needed, ask for Ferdie and let him know the situation, because assuming your facts are correct this is a fairly simple warranty fix that any dealer wanting money will take.

-alex

Very much appreciated Alex! I will definitely look into giving SCS a call. At the moment it's just become a mess. Subaru Roadside won't tow me anywhere because according to their guidelines they will tow to the nearest dealer and since I am already at one I am screwed with that. Geico will only tow me up to 20 miles with me being responsible for overage fees. This whole situation is a fiasco. I have been documenting constantly and I just feel like this whole process is so wrong. I am guilty until proven innocent and despite me mentioning the Magnuson-Moss Act and asking SoA how one claim from a Service Manager who couldn't even get his facts straight (STi Profile, COBB Accessport, etc.) they still seem to side with the dealer. It is just so crappy. As for my story, I would gladly take a polygraph if it meant I could prove my innocence, conventional logic would say that if I had any doing in this alleged "flash/tune" I would have owned up to it by now. I don't enjoy spending hours a day trying to get the matter resolved with SoA, the dealership, not having a car, no rental because my warranty is in question, documenting everything, costing me time and money with work, it's just a mess!

[tjohnson104]

with my car I was just driving along and all of a sudden it died while cruising. Nothing worked either just like you. New battery didn't fix it, jump start, nothing. But I still had power to my radio and windows and lights. After a week at the dealership, to which they were extremely confused on and have never seen anything like this before. They tried to blame my trd intake on it... I calmly stated that a simple intake would not kill the car. A engineer came and looked at it, and found out it was a bad engine wire harness. After they replaced that (under warranty) it worked just fine.. So maybe you could ask to look at that also?

[SleepingPanda]

Is the car you're getting service at. The same place you bought it? If not I would definitely bring it back to where you bought it. They will be more motivated to get things squared away since it's their fault if the car was flashed prior to you purchasing.

[krayzie]

Subaru probably made the assumption that the car has an aftermarket ECU flash if the emission control variables are all undefined / zero when trying to start the car, as the aftermarket ECU tends to have an infinite loop in place to not let the routine finish initialization in order to keep the check engine light off.

The BRZ has a Toyota ECU which requires a Techstream laptop to work on it, I don't think the traditional Subaru diag stuff would work.

[Speed2th]

I never trust Puente hills Subaru because they always put high mark up on cars, that says a lot of about their character. although I live close I would rather take it to other dealership. I would take it back to Glendale Subaru and have them to take care of it. But why your roadside assistance was denied too?