Rev Works turbo kit 2k mile update

[jamesm]

I just turned over 2000 miles with the turbo installed, so I figured I'd give you all a brief update.

The tuning is 95% complete at this point, and the car is making great power (260whp on a mustang @ 7psi). There is one issue remaining, which i'll detail in a minute. The guys at the shop are continuing to make improvements to the kit as we learn, and one of those will be a new charge pipe with relocated MAF going on next week, that should improve the stability of the MAF output. The initial design put the sensor a bit too close to the diameter change. Once this is on... we'll move on to solving the last bugging tuning issue:

Stalling. This car is driving me nuts for this reason alone. It's extremely weird behavior. Here's my best description:

- You know how when you cold start your car it idles kinda high for a few seconds than settles down? well, mine runs super rich and has to maintain super high load to keep idling, and even the rpms dip to ~500rpm.

- immediately after it settles down, the car will hunt up and down a couple hundred rpms for about 30 seconds to a minute, then settle into a perfect idle and run great.

- now the weird part: if you drive away (or even give it any throttle) before the hunting bit is complete, the car will stall repeatedly when you come to a stop and run like crap until you key it off/on and start the process over. if you wait until the hunting is complete (a minute or so after starting the car initially), everything runs perfect and the car never stalls. it's a beast.

I've been pouring over logs for weeks trying to figure out what the switch is that is causing this distinct change in behavior. I have a number of theories, probably none of which are 100% correct. But it's very clear: if you pull away to soon, it stalls and runs like poo. if you don't, it doesn't. Any ideas?

Beyond that everything is great. The kit is holding up great. No cracks, leaks, etc. I've recently added a Motiv overpipe and will be turning up the boost once the MAF pipe upgrade is finished. I can't wait!

[SmsAlSuwaidi]

A nice update, great that you are enjoying you car.

I'm no expert in tuning but these symptoms are really weird ! I guess when you pull away while it's hunting within the rough idle the car sticks with that idle issue ?

I'm no expert that's just a random ass guess, nevertheless keep on enjoying it

Sent from my phone

[Adeets]

Originally Posted by jamesm

So I just turned over 2000 miles with the turbo installed, so I figured I'd give you all a brief update.

The tuning is 95% complete at this point, and the car is making great power (260whp on a mustang @ 7psi). There is one issue remaining, which i'll detail in a minute. The guys at the shop are continuing to make improvements to the kit as we learn, and one of those will be a new charge pipe with relocated MAF going on next week, that should improve the stability of the MAF input. The initial design put the sensor a bit too close to the diameter change. Once this is on... we'll move on to solving the last bugging tuning issue:

Stalling. This car is driving me nuts for this reason alone. It's extremely weird behavior. Here's my best description:

- You know how when you cold start your car it idles kinda high for a few seconds than settles down? well, mine runs super rich and has to maintain super high load to keep idling, and even the rpms dip to ~500rpm.

- immediately after it settles down, the car will hunt up and down a couple hundred rpms for about 30 seconds to a minute, then settle into a perfect idle and run great.

- now the weird part: if you drive away (or even give it any throttle) before the hunting bit is complete, the car will stall repeatedly when you come to a stop and run like crap until you key it off/on and start the process over. if you wait until the hunting is complete (a minute or so after starting the car initially), everything runs perfect and the car never stalls. it's a beast.

I've been pouring over logs for weeks trying to figure out what the switch is that is causing this distinct change in behavior. I have a number of theories, probably none of which are 100% correct. But it's very clear: if you pull away to soon, it stalls and runs like poo. if you don't, it doesn't. Any ideas?

Beyond that everything is great. The kit is holding up great. No cracks, leaks, etc. I've recently added a Motiv overpipe and will be turning up the boost once the MAF pipe upgrade is finished. I can't wait!

Do you have a light weight crank pully, or light weight flywheel?


I do and am tuned to idle at 900-700, it got rid of my weird hunting issues.

As a reference before I lightweighted my drive train I was idling between 700-600 ish.

As reference I have LWCP, LW flywheel, CF drive shaft, and 15.4lb wedsports.

[jamesm]

It does have an act streetlite flywheel. The idle, when it's settled, is around 900rpm. They raised it to accommodate the flywheel when the clutch was installed I believe.
@mad_sb have you found anything in your investigation into the ecu that may help understand what's going on?

[mike the snake]

Maybe the cams need to settle in to their adjustments or initial settings. I read here that someone always let their car idle after starting to allow the cams to do their things.

[jamesm]

Originally Posted by mike the snake

Maybe the cams need to settle in to their adjustments or initial settings. I read here that someone always let their car idle after starting to allow the cams to do their things.

I thought I had read that as well and suspect it may have something to do with it. I can't find that old post, though.

[Nightbringer]

I'm not forced induction so I have no right to chime in here, but my car exhibits the same behavior NA. Even if I started out after that first large RPM drop, the car would have really large trims, high load, stall if I came to quick stops and generally run like hell for an extended duration even after coming fully up to temp. Letting it warm up to the first notch above bottom before proceeding and it's fine every time. I know you're aware that fixes it, just thought I'd mention it may not be related to your specific configuration. I too remember reading the post about the cam angles adjusting themselves at startup, but wasn't that only for post-reflash, or are they always seeking initially? At least in my logs, I don't see the intake/exhaust angles moving around much from startup to warm.

Apologies if this isn't useful or germane to topic. Thanks for the update, and hope you find a resolution!

[Adeets]

Originally Posted by Nightbringer

I'm not forced induction so I have no right to chime in here, but my car exhibits the same behavior NA. Even if I started out after that first large RPM drop, the car would have really large trims, high load, stall if I came to quick stops and generally run like hell for an extended duration even after coming fully up to temp. Letting it warm up to the first notch above bottom before proceeding and it's fine every time. I know you're aware that fixes it, just thought I'd mention it may not be related to your specific configuration. I too remember reading the post about the cam angles adjusting themselves at startup, but wasn't that only for post-reflash, or are they always seeking initially? At least in my logs, I don't see the intake/exhaust angles moving around much from startup to warm.

Apologies if this isn't useful or germane to topic. Thanks for the update, and hope you find a resolution!

Random question but do you have all the OEM patches installed in your tune? Your NA problem sounds like one I had before moto-mike updated me with the new patches.

[jamesm]

Originally Posted by Adeets

Random question but do you have all the OEM patches installed in your tune? Your NA problem sounds like one I had before moto-mike updated me with the new patches.

The car is only a few months old and was flashes with any updates up to that point. I haven't taken it in to the dealer since I bought it.

[King Tut]

These symptoms don't make any sense to me. I have had my fair share of stalling problems from my Tial Q BOV opening at idle to the car stalling when I would put the clutch in and let the RPM drop at speed, but never any kind of issue like that.

[jamesm]

Originally Posted by Nightbringer

I'm not forced induction so I have no right to chime in here, but my car exhibits the same behavior NA. Even if I started out after that first large RPM drop, the car would have really large trims, high load, stall if I came to quick stops and generally run like hell for an extended duration even after coming fully up to temp. Letting it warm up to the first notch above bottom before proceeding and it's fine every time. I know you're aware that fixes it, just thought I'd mention it may not be related to your specific configuration. I too remember reading the post about the cam angles adjusting themselves at startup, but wasn't that only for post-reflash, or are they always seeking initially? At least in my logs, I don't see the intake/exhaust angles moving around much from startup to warm.

Apologies if this isn't useful or germane to topic. Thanks for the update, and hope you find a resolution!

Thanks for the input, definitely useful. I notice high trims like you describe as well.

I noticed today that if I get in and drive away immediately and can manage to not stall it (generally by not coming to a stop) in the first few minutes it'll almost go back to normal, not stalling anymore, but still hunting when I eventually do stop. If I wait 20-30 seconds for it to stop hunting then, it'll be perfectly fine thereafter. I'm stumped, but it definitely seems like some ecu routine getting interrupted by my driving too soon.

[Nightbringer]

Originally Posted by Adeets

Random question but do you have all the OEM patches installed in your tune? Your NA problem sounds like one I had before moto-mike updated me with the new patches.

Yeah I was hopeful the A01 update post-tune would cure it but no dice. Two dealerships have stated it is "operating as intended." lol

Maybe does this have something to do with mad_sb's theory on the overly extended cold loop? I don't see how it would, as the trimmings normalize afterwards, just postulating out loud that perhaps there are other systems staying in an altered state for too long as well. Anything notably different in timing advance or cam angles from cold to warm idle? Mine seem to be more or less unchanged. Only variabls I'm seeing with any kind of delta are the trims, but I'm a newbie to all this.

[Adeets]

Originally Posted by jamesm

Thanks for the input, definitely useful. I notice high trims like you describe as well.

I noticed today that if I get in and drive away immediately and can manage to not stall it (generally by not coming to a stop) in the first few minutes it'll almost go back to normal, not stalling anymore, but still hunting when I eventually do stop. If I wait 20-30 seconds for it to stop hunting then, it'll be perfectly fine thereafter. I'm stumped, but it definitely seems like some ecu routine getting interrupted by my driving too soon.

Your tuner should be keeping the OEM patches up to date with his tunes, I think the patch I'm talking about was 3 months ago?

[mike the snake]

I read somewhere that when our cars start cold, the ECU is in closed, or open-loop, and after it warms up a little it goes to open, or closed-loop (not sure which), and I wonder if maybe by not letting the car complete that changeover it's doing what your cars are doing?